Update on my 425

[Central_PA_Chris]

Howdy, I'm the less than happy Power Trac owner from threads....

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/114149-pointer-425-tbn-classifieds.html

and

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/107255-bad-power-trac-experience.html

and

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/129843-425-need-help.html

Man, I forgot 1/2 the issues I'd posted about in those threads and I remember twice as many as I posted about.

There was a call for project updates recently since my project has been to get my power trac actually running I figured I'd drop a line.

Other than the engine exploding it looks like my problem was the tram pump was burnt right from the factory. Had a local shop run and trouble shoot the PT while communicating with Terry and they pulled the pump, sent it down to Tazwell and put it back together. Holy cow, it runs like it should! It can actually crawl up onto my trailer (which it would not do in the PT parking lot when I picked it up) it doesn't whine as much and when going up a ice covered slope and loosing traction two wheels on one side spin! Just like they should!

Thanks to the member here who let me do a side by side with his PT425 down by Petersburg PA, that was the final straw where I knew something was wrong and not just the way it was designed to be.

Power Trac called only to try and bill me for the fix, never to say "Crap we are sorry that your tractor not only came with a bad engine, but we sold it to you with a cooked pump." They said I must have damaged it by not changing the oil filter. Keep in mind that at the point I told the shop to figure out the problem it had around 31 hours on it (slightly over 1/2 of the recommended service interval) the engine exploded at 2 hours, the shop put a few hours on it that fix process, all my hours have been trouble shooting problems from boiling fuel, to massive overheating and burning of throttle cable, to tire stems ripped off, to repeated failures of the front castors on the mower deck (one of the 3/8" or 1/2" thick rear castor brackets fell off while the shop had it, factory weld had almost NO contact, so when it comes to mower wheels and brackets they can't design 'em or weld em.) There was another shop run and hours of trouble shooting there after the heating and oil on the filter issue. I didn't catch it at the time, but I think in saying that I had to not have changed the filter that he may have been insinuating that I cheated on the hour meter and it had to have more hours on it, I think if I would have picked up on that on the phone I might actually have lost my cool and getting me to do that is a feat. Even now, just coming out of the shop, it's only at 41 hours. 10 or so of those are the guy at the shop mowing his fields with it to test it out since I dropped it off with them with only 31 hours on it in early October and a bunch of those 31 hours are shop time as it was in for the overheating issue from May till I think late September.

After picking it up from the shop I put it in the garage for the evening, of course it was cold and would not start the next day, and the throttle cable was frozen/stuck in place (on low throttle). Throttle lever has always felt sticky and had limited range of motion. In working the throttle lever to try to get it free, the bracket in the control panel bent and the cable snapped. In addition to the always felt funny, my PT's original overheating incident melted the outer covering on the throttle cable. Carl here (Woodland farms) warned me that that would kill the lube inside the cable and cause issues eventually, but since it was still working and it's mainly been in the shop I never got around to replacing it..... After aiming a torpedo heater at the PT for 10 minutes it started right up, I jury rigged it at full throttle to do my test drive in the snow and on the ice and was so happy to have it working that even an evening spent pulling the throttle cable and fixing that system (at least for the moment as I used the same cable since it's what I had on hand) hasn't dampened my enthusiasm. I did note that a pretty decent groove had been dug into the bracket that's bolted to the control panel. Groove was dug by the throttle wire, which explains why the throttle always felt way different from the choke cable.

Anyways, it seems to be working as it should now. 41 hours of tractor time (at least 1/2 of that by the shop that had it for the engine issue and pulling the pump and overheating and oil on filter troubleshooting) and 20 months after purchase. The shop was quite decent with me and only charged $300 to pull and replace the pump, that includes UPSing it down to Tazwell and a full hydro oil change. I think about $130 of the $300 was parts & shipping.

Just gotta come up with yet another fix for the front caster tires, weld the cracks in the mower deck, figure out why only one light works, pressure wash all the oil out of the engine compartment, rig a secondary electric fan to keep engine temps down, maybe rig a dual exhaust, figure out which method I'm going to use to start it when it's cold and then it's time to actually use it!

 

[SnowRidge]

I wonder if Power Trac will ever understand that threads like this hurt their business and they need to improve their quality control.

Sounds like the shop that pulled the tram pump for you is a keeper.

So how did Power Trac's try at billing you get resolved, and how much did they want? Inquiring minds an all that.

 

[Central_PA_Chris]

They wanted two hours labor and shipping back to the shop that swapped out the pump. I told them no and that was the end of it. They had my pump, so they could have insisted, they didn't.

 

[toy]

central pa cris glad you finally got it fixed, hope you have many years of trouble free service from it and hope finally you can get some satisfaction out of using it.

 

[Central_PA_Chris]

Thanks! Yes, I am quite glad to have it up to steam with only detail work to have it fully functional and hopefully running for the long haul. Starting to get excited about things to do with it and maybe to it (rigging up a winch, maybe building a plow mount that would fit my existing ATV plow, etc....).

 

[stray]

You know it sounds like someone at the factory ran or tried to run your PT for and amount of time without the lubricant fluids in it. It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone started a system without oil in it. It could have been a worker afraid of losing their job and just never told anyone. Gosh the sick feelings you must have been through. You have my sympathy.

 

[greenmule]

Well its to bad one of the only[or is pt the only] american made machine on this entire forum?? can't do all they can do to stay in bussiness,stuff like this ain't helping them stay in bussiness.

 

[woodlandfarms]

PT is American Assembled. Not Made. Welcome to America...

Engines are either Japanese, Korean or German, Pumps appear Italian. I don't know about the motors, electric appear chinese.

That said, I don't argue the point about not having a lot of "pride" in their workmanship. Seems a good machine could be great but I get the feeling it is a management / owner issue.

Maybe if they get in trouble we can buy a controlling interest. I would love to look at there books cause I don't see a lot of new owners popping up here, and I never see advertising. Maybe that part of their business is out of my radar (in trade magazines or something like that).

I also bet that PT is only a small part of the income stream, and what they do for mining is the bread and butter.

 

[kmaz]

Carl, why would you say they are american "assembled" and not american made? I do not think you can be more american made than a PT. Before a pt is built the entire frame and body is sitting in a rack of steel waiting for a fabricator to cut bend and weld. The are by all standards american made.

Kris

 

[jda1961]

i had seriously thought about replacing my old sears mower with a 422 very soon, the pt is made about an hour from me, but after reading this sad story i think i'll steer clear of this company. if they won't stand behind what they sell then screw them. this story really is irritating to read. glad i did'nt buy one yet. i looked at the website to find out what engine is used in them, it don't say, just says it an 18 horsepower gasoline engine, does'nt say what brand. plus the warrantee is vague at best, doesn't include engine, only for parts deemed a manufactured defect, well, if theres no dealer network, and the customer has to do the work on it, who deems the part was defective? does the owner send it to the factory and they deem it defective? they should have said to him, mr customer we are sorry for selling you a crappy machine, bring it back down and we will replace it with another machine and we will fix it ourselves. but they did'nt, they got this guys money and pretty much said screw him. i'll never do bussness with them. thanks for the heads up on them.

 

[greenmule]

Well as american made as is possible I guess,more american made than most on here.
Yeah read they made mining stuff,they are in prime location for that sort of fabrication.
I was kinda thinking about buying a smaller gas one myself a couple years ago,don't believe I would now either.

Maybe some one should print this out and mail it to the man down there[who ever the man is],maybe possibly it might make them realize what they could have if they would step it up? [probably wouldn't do a thing to them though].

 

[woodlandfarms]

JDA.... I think you misunderstand a lot about the PT. From how strong your response is, doubt what I am about to say will convince you to change your mind.

No tractor is infallible, read all the majors and the problems they have. Buying a Deere or a Kubota will not guarantee a better product, nor better customer service.

Customer service is rare, and with other tractors you will find the same issues. Also, and this is no comment to Chris, we do not know the full story. I believe Chris, but I will say I have had to do tons of work on my used PT and they have been there for me 100%. I consider myself intelligent, but when it comes to hydraulic machines I am like the guy calling tech support because my computer won't start and I forgot to plug it in. They tolerate my ignorance, and have helped me at every turn.

You would be fortunate to purchase a PT living as close as you do. You could test your PT before you take it (Might have saved poor Chris some misery), you can meet the guys who welded it together and bolted it up. I am sure that you meeting them face to face will get you that added double check as they now know that you know who they are.

But, enjoy your Deer or Kubota. If I had to do it again I would buy another PT in a heartbeat.

 

[ernemats]

Ihave had my 422 for 9 years (1350 hours on it) and have had only 2 minor problems 1. replaced tram cable last year and replaced hub which was my own fault. Last year I also bought a used 1845 which had been abused some and needed new brakes, hub and mower pulley . I would also buy one again.

 

[jda1961]

JDA.... I think you misunderstand a lot about the PT. From how strong your response is, doubt what I am about to say will convince you to change your mind.

No tractor is infallible, read all the majors and the problems they have. Buying a Deere or a Kubota will not guarantee a better product, nor better customer service.

Customer service is rare, and with other tractors you will find the same issues. Also, and this is no comment to Chris, we do not know the full story. I believe Chris, but I will say I have had to do tons of work on my used PT and they have been there for me 100%. I consider myself intelligent, but when it comes to hydraulic machines I am like the guy calling tech support because my computer won't start and I forgot to plug it in. They tolerate my ignorance, and have helped me at every turn.

You would be fortunate to purchase a PT living as close as you do. You could test your PT before you take it (Might have saved poor Chris some misery), you can meet the guys who welded it together and bolted it up. I am sure that you meeting them face to face will get you that added double check as they now know that you know who they are.

But, enjoy your Deer or Kubota. If I had to do it again I would buy another PT in a heartbeat.

blah blah blah, if you sell a product be man enough to back it up with out putting the customer through ****. i stand behind my comments, i'm never gonna buy one case closed.

 

[jda1961]

JDA.... I think you misunderstand a lot about the PT. From how strong your response is, doubt what I am about to say will convince you to change your mind.

No tractor is infallible, read all the majors and the problems they have. Buying a Deere or a Kubota will not guarantee a better product, nor better customer service.

Customer service is rare, and with other tractors you will find the same issues. Also, and this is no comment to Chris, we do not know the full story. I believe Chris, but I will say I have had to do tons of work on my used PT and they have been there for me 100%. I consider myself intelligent, but when it comes to hydraulic machines I am like the guy calling tech support because my computer won't start and I forgot to plug it in. They tolerate my ignorance, and have helped me at every turn.

You would be fortunate to purchase a PT living as close as you do. You could test your PT before you take it (Might have saved poor Chris some misery), you can meet the guys who welded it together and bolted it up. I am sure that you meeting them face to face will get you that added double check as they now know that you know who they are.

But, enjoy your Deer or Kubota. If I had to do it again I would buy another PT in a heartbeat.

i bought a craftsman tractor in 97, the motor started acting up as soon as i got it home. called sears, they sent a man right to my door, the head gaskets were blown on both sides, they replaced both in my yard, no charge, no stupid questions, they just did it, you know why? it had a warrantee that was worth something. no you can say what you want but that guy was done wrong and most of us know it. my craftsman is now old but never given me any more problems since. i'm sure some are good machines but on other sites they tell another story but you don't want to hear that. i'll never buy one, for 11000.00 bucks i can get a nice kioti 4x4 with a mower, or a kubota, or some other brand with a diesel engine, 4x4, loader, 3 pointhitch, and so on. why limit myself to a machine that i could only use thier implements. have a nice day

 

[SpringHollow]

I back up Woodland. I spent 6 hours today pulling out firewood from down the hill. The regular tractors i have had in the past could not have done it on those hills with the snow and ice - the duals with chains worked great. The company could be better but Chris has always helped me out by answering my questions. My tractor, like Woodland's, was heavily used. If i had similar problems with a new tractor, i might feel different. As it stands, I would buy another. It is a great tractor for my needs. A rear 3 pt hitch would be nice for dragging logs out but i think i will solve that problem by building a logging arch sometime.

Ken

 

[woodlandfarms]

i bought a craftsman tractor in 97, the motor started acting up as soon as i got it home. called sears, they sent a man right to my door, the head gaskets were blown on both sides, they replaced both in my yard, no charge, no stupid questions, they just did it, you know why? it had a warrantee that was worth something. no you can say what you want but that guy was done wrong and most of us know it. my craftsman is now old but never given me any more problems since. i'm sure some are good machines but on other sites they tell another story but you don't want to hear that. i'll never buy one, for 11000.00 bucks i can get a nice kioti 4x4 with a mower, or a kubota, or some other brand with a diesel engine, 4x4, loader, 3 pointhitch, and so on. why limit myself to a machine that i could only use thier implements. have a nice day

Dude, get a grip, This is nothing to get feisty about. You seem to have taken my defense of PT as some sort of personal attack. It wasn't... sorry...

And don't you own a DK55? Why would you want a 422 with that kind of equipment on hand?

 

[woodlandfarms]

Carl, why would you say they are american "assembled" and not american made? I do not think you can be more american made than a PT. Before a pt is built the entire frame and body is sitting in a rack of steel waiting for a fabricator to cut bend and weld. The are by all standards american made.

Kris

True... Not much comparable is more american made than good ol PT. But, I wonder if the steel they use is even american anymore. This is all me just bemoaning the offshoring of american product. I am personally struggling with it as a studio I am working for is taking its movies to Canada. Can't fault them for saving money, just hate that it is at my expense. I had a talk with someone important, stressed my firm belief that while I do not think protectionism works in the legislature, companies can make "american" decisions. His response was to tell it to the shareholders.. Viscious unbreakable cycle....

 

[Central_PA_Chris]

Experience has a lot to do with it. If I had even 10 hours of experience on a 425 before I picked mine up I would have known it had an issue when I went to load it and it would never have left the lot. The symptoms were subtle, the hydraulic motor could have been bad from the factory (or maybe that would have been visible on install?), or they could have had air in the system at PT and damaged the pump. I dunno, but I 100% understand how they would not have noticed without a bunch of testing. I got very unlucky on several fronts (engine and hydraulic motor) and I got the usual issues (cracking mower deck, wheels falling off mower deck, poorly designed exhaust, heat issues, fuel delivery issues, etc, etc.) I was prepared for some/most of the regular issues as I had read this forum before buying. What I was really unprepared for was the complete lack of feeling supported when the big things went wrong.

Obviously a lot of guys here are huge fans, reading this forum made me want one of these tractors. I'm a tool and project guy, I weld, have a good shop was willing to tinker and figured maybe I'd eventually get into the hydraulics (or at a minimum find a shop to deal with those issues). I 100% understand those who see this as one side of the story. I really have tried to communicate clearly and be as fair (from my biased view point) as I can, but any way you split it it's my side of the story as PT is not here giving feed back on this forum. That actually points to the bigger problem to me. They should be here actively answering questions, helping people figure out the systems, trouble shoot and fix these machines. They should learn from this forum what breaks and redesign it so it doesn't happen again. Having a technician/designer here helping people and providing a couple hours of tech support a week could be a very viable alternative to a dealer network. They don't want an expensive dealer network, good! Use cheap easy methods like this forum to support customers and solve issues before they become negative press.

Even with my very frustrating issues, when I look at other tractors I see a lot of downside compared to the virtues of a PT. I 100% believe that if PT were putting a bit of time and effort into quality control and quality parts and addressing problems (and customer support) that these would be the most amazing small tractors out there.

I think my current issue is one of faith, I don't really trust the machine anymore, yet to really put it to work I need to put more $ into buckets, tire chains, a plow or snow blower, and some time into fixing the standard issues. Not really sure what I'm going to do and my thoughts on that subject change daily but I am quite thankful for all the support and advise I've gotten here.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[MossRoad]

Chris,
I am truly sorry for the bad experience you had with your machine. In a way, each and every time I here about problems with new machines, I cringe, because of all the cheerleading I have done regarding my machine. I really do not know why Power Trac does the things they do regarding machines that are not correct right from the get-go. Just plain strange.