New Pick em up Trucks

[Diamondpilot]

The ride is actually almost identical in most 3/4 & 1-ton SRW's F-250/F-350.

The reason is because of the helper on top on a 1-ton. The helper on top of a 1-ton spring doesn't touch the overload pads until the truck has at least 1,500lbs on it. The 3/4 ton springs don't usually have the upper overload springs. So empty, they ride almost identical. Now when they're loaded heavily, the 1-ton helper touches the overload pads and helps stabilize the load. The standard 3/4 ton spring just flattens out and errodes the handling quality of the truck.

Builder is right. I have a 04 F-250 4x4 PSD and a 06 F-350 4x4 PSD. Both are the same wheel base and cab/bed configuration. I actually think the F-350 rides better but that is partially because they changed the front axle in 05 from a solid axle to a independent front suspension.

End result is its a truck. I really don't care how it rides as long as it can tow and haul a load. If I wanted a good ride I would get a Cadillac.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

Heywood wrote:
"If you ask me, it is 1/2 ton pickups that are useless. Yooperdave's photo validates this. For a vehicle the size of a full-size pickup, it should START with a payload of 1500-2000 lbs. A 1/2 ton is great if you want to carry a full load of ping pong balls or rigid styrofoam insulation."

I disagree, the 1/2 ton trucks work well with a do-it-yourself homeowner kinda guy. They're great for picking up materials at a home store or loading firewood. I have a 3/4 ton and have only had one time in the last two years that a 1/2 ton would not do what I needed. A 1/2 ton can tow up to 7000lbs, not that I would go that high with one.
If your're in business, doing real hauling or plowing snow, no way. You have to go to a HD and then youe might as well go for the 1 ton for the small difference in price.
They sell alot of 1/2 tons and if they weren't up to the task, the manufacturers would stop making them before performing all the warranty work. Most 1/2 ton buyers won't take it anywhere near the max performance ratings. Anyone who might push it, are smart enough to know to go for a bigger truck.

Totally agree. I have a 07 F-150 and it handles 7,000# no problem and has a max tow rating of 9,300#. I have towed the 7,000# boat we have many 1,000's of miles with it and it feels safe and comfortable all while averaging 11mpg. 1/2 tons are what 75% of truck owners need.

Now when it comes down to 3/4 tons and above 50% of the owners of them really don't need them and could get by with a 1/2 ton or no truck at all. I just look back at all the work my dad did with a 1996 4x4 Ranger with the V6. That thing pulled 2 grain wagons at a time, hauled tractors, pulled shrubs out, pulled out stuck tractors, and towed our boat. It would still be here today if it was not involved in a head on collision.

Chris

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

The reason is because of the helper on top on a 1-ton. The helper on top of a 1-ton spring doesn't touch the overload pads until the truck has at least 1,500lbs on it.

Or the springs compress from hitting bumps

The 3/4 ton springs don't usually have the upper overload springs. So empty, they ride almost identical.

The 3/4 ton will have marginally lower unsprung weight, but yeah, the ride should be equal, assuming the road is smooth and the bed is empty, the overload leaf spring does nothing on a 1 ton until needed.

Now when they're loaded heavily, the 1-ton helper touches the overload pads and helps stabilize the load. The standard 3/4 ton spring just flattens out and errodes the handling quality of the truck.[/QUOTE]

What I like about the air helper springs is, I can add 5 to 10 lbs pressure when the truck bed is empty and will improve the ride significantly with the flick of a switch. Really helps to dampen out wheel hop on washboard roads and reduce roll on cornering.

I'm debating the usefulness of a 1/2 ton in carrying cargo in the bed, not so much the towing ability, although if I was considering towing 9000 lbs, I'd rather have the heavier duty springs, frame, larger brakes, rear end, "E" load range tires etc. etc. of a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup.

For the volume of space available in the bed, depending on what you put in, you are likely to exceed the gross weight of the truck long before you fill up the space available.

 

[Builder]

Someday in the future, long after I've endured the punishing ride of traditional springs, these knucklehead light truck engineers are going to actually look at bigger trucks with air ride suspension systems and start building their light trucks that way.

I've driven some heavies with air ride and the difference is astonishing.

Some have already started adopting quality transmissions, like Allison & Aisin and installing Pacbrake type exhaust brakes on their diesels. Now all we need is some genius to figure out that a simple belt or gear driven air compressor could be utilized for an air suspension, air seats, run flat tire systems and a whole host of other useful add-ons.

That'll be the day I sell my last work truck and jump in my rocking chair.

 

[asylum575]

Builder wrote:
"That'll be the day I sell my last work truck and jump in my rocking chair"

And that's when us TBNers will be starting a thread on the Projects column trying to get an air ride in that rocker

 

[sld]

I have ordered 2 F250 V10 Super Dutys since 1999 and now drive a 2007. Both times, an equivalently optioned F150 was more expensive.

I got alot more truck for the money with the Super Duty.

You will be very happy with the V10 and 5 speed automatic. This is the best powertrain on the planet in my opinion. Even if I only used its full capabilities a few times a year it is worth it.

I have a very short commute to work so mpg doesn't matter to me. If I had to drive alot of miles to and from work I would still keep the truck and get an econobox.

Just my rambling $.02.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I don't know about it being the best power plant but it is a heck of a upgrade for the $600 it is over the 5.4 V8. My uncle has one in his 2005 F-350 4x4 and my Diesels will eat its lunch. That being said if I was to buy a new Superduty today with Diesel prices being what they are, both engine($8,000 upgrade) and fuel, it would be a V10.

Chris

 

[Builder]

I don't know about it being the best power plant but it is a heck of a upgrade for the $600 it is over the 5.4 V8. My uncle has one in his 2005 F-350 4x4 and my Diesels will eat its lunch. That being said if I was to buy a new Superduty today with Diesel prices being what they are, both engine($8,000 upgrade) and fuel, it would be a V10.

Chris

But according to Wards Automotive, if you kept that same gas truck over 100,000 miles, you'd get 5,000 less at trade in time than the same truck with a diesel.

So a truck with an $8,000 diesel ends up costing only $3,000 more than a comparable truck with a gas engine.

If you tow often or drive long distances, you might close that gap to an even lesser amount since gas MPG plummets to single figures when towing heavy.

I figure the fun & extra torque of owning a diesel for $3,000 more is worth it spread out over 5-6 years. It's a business write off for me, anyway.

 

[Diamondpilot]

But according to Wards Automotive, if you kept that same gas truck over 100,000 miles, you'd get 5,000 less at trade in time than the same truck with a diesel.

So a truck with an $8,000 diesel ends up costing only $3,000 more than a comparable truck with a gas engine.

If you tow often or drive long distances, you might close that gap to an even lesser amount since gas MPG plummets to single figures when towing heavy.

I figure the fun & extra torque of owning a diesel for $3,000 more is worth it spread out over 5-6 years. It's a business write off for me, anyway.

All good points. I drive my 2 diesel trucks about 10,000 miles each per year and they have yielded about twice the mpg versus the V10 and like you said have tons of reserve power, especially with the intakes, exhaust, and chips I have on them. My feeling is with the new emissions requirements and higher fuel prices I will drive mine less and less. Actually now that I think about it I only put about 8,000 miles on my F-350 this year after picking up my Saturn in April. We seem to drive the F-150 Supercrew we have for family functions and back and forth to the lake every weekend , about 150 miles round trip, each weekend from Mid-April to the end of October. I guess I have driven the Saturn about 8,000 miles also.

End result for me is when I drive the truck I have 10K plus behind it 75% of the time so its getting used for what it was intended but only driving it 8,000 miles a year or less I think the V10 or what ever large gas engine is available will be the right path for me to take if an when I buy a new truck. That is if fuel prices are similar to what they are now and the mpg and reliability of the new Diesels are not proven.

Another thing is I am one of the bad Americans who buys too many new vehicles. I have only keep one past 100,000 miles, that was my Toyota truck. All others I get rid of between 50,000 and 80,000 miles.

Chris

 

[John Deere 3520]

I will say some words for GM I just bought a 2006 2500HD DMAX/allison the LLY motor not LBZ and i love got it for $15,000 with 75,000miles its a very nice truck I have hauled a 22ft pintle trailer full of lumber with no probs.. The Dmax is a good motor cant go wrong with it..

 

[mojoinco]

We have a 92 crew cab F350, long bed, 460, 5 spd manual. Looking at 2005 and up V10 F20/350 crewcab.

2005 and up have coil front end, so they match GM/Dodge turning radius.

Dodge doesn't offer large gas engine, GM offers a 6 and a 6.2 -- but no manual!

The extended cabs just don't have much for a back seat (for us, opportunities for grand kids, and definitely dogs and tack). And the difference in space for just 1 more foot of wheelbase is not critical enough to want the smaller cab.

Our truck is used only for large and/or heavy items and pulling a trailer (horse, or flat bed). Also has to carry a slide in camper.

So, the largest gas engine (no special maintenance costs -- exorbitant when needed on diesel), less mileage, but $6~8000 less on the front end (purchase price). So we won't be carrying the camper and pulling the horses over the continental divide at 75 in the left lane -- pulling horses we would be in the right lane anyhow. Same for mountain roads.

IF I was pulling a lot, or a larger trailer (steel 2 horse, going to an aluminum 3 horse) I might want to think about a diesel. But it takes a long time to amortize $6~8000, especially as we have hit a period of high diesel fuel costs versus gas costs. You makes your decisions based on a balance of heart, head, and wallet. I have a motorcycle, Miata, and tractor. The truck is pure appliance, so it is wallet and head for me. Though in the event of a tie, the heart gets a vote (like the ugly HD Dodge's versus a Ford or Chevy -- IF it was a tie).

 

[Dmace]

Dodge doesn't offer large gas engine, GM offers a 6 and a 6.2 -- but no manual!

That's because Dodge doesn't need 6.2 liters to make 400hp, the 5.7 liter HEMI does it just fine. Of course if you need larger displacement to over compensate then by all means get a GM. I can see the vanity plate now...

And you can get a 6-speed manual in a RAM 2500.

 

[WilliamBos]

That's because Dodge doesn't need 6.2 liters to make 400hp, the 5.7 liter HEMI does it just fine. Of course if you need larger displacement to over compensate then by all means get a GM. I can see the vanity plate now...

And you can get a 6-speed manual in a RAM 2500.

The Dodge also has another problem, it will NOT pass a gas station.

Going that big, go Diesel.

 

[Dmace]

The Dodge also has another problem, it will NOT pass a gas station.

Going that big, go Diesel.

Funny, my 4x4 quad cab short bed loaded RAM 1500 gets 14-16mpg city, 15-17mpg highway and 11-13mpg while towing my tractor on a trailer (7000lbs +/- total) and I am heavy on the throttle. My buddy with a F-150 V8 5.4l can't even get 15mpg on the highway and I have 4 "real" doors not those stupid half doors that only open after you open the driver or passenger door. Big diesels are useless until you get to loads above 10,000lbs, Diesel is still almost $3/gal and regular unleaded is just $1.79/gal and my oil change is 6 quarts of oil instead of 2 gallons and my fuel filter is $20 and replaced every 50,000 miles instead of a $50 diesel filter and replaced every oil change. I could go on but it's useless...

 

[gemini5362]

actually diesl in my area is as low as 2.06 a gallon. versus 1.79 for unleaded. those ratios change on a regular basis but that is what they are now. If I keep my foot on a leash and if I drive the actual legal speed limit then unloaded I hit between 18 and 20 with my diesel. If I drive like normal I drop down to around 17 maybe 18 but that is rabbit starts and driving around 75 to 85 on the interstate. There is a higher up front price but resale should cover that if you decide later to sell.

 

[Builder]

About the only reasons left to buy diesel are engine longevity between rebuilds, much higher torque at lower RPM and resale value.

If #2 was the same price as reg unleaded, like it was 5-10 years ago, it would be a different story more in favor of diesel.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Yea. The gap of HP and torque on the new large V8 and V10 gas engines are closing the gap. With a 8K upfront difference one can live with the 12 mpg over the 18 mpg with a diesel for a long time.

I went and looked at 2 2003 Ford Excursions yesterday morning. Both Eddie Bauer 4x4 with the V-10 gas engine and both had about 90,000 miles on them. Take your pick price was $8599 Another dealer had one, same year and options, with a 7.3 Powerstroke and 120,000 and was asking $9999 so the difference was not that great. Did not buy either. One with the V-10 had Green and tan paint but showed lots of scratches and door dings. The other V-10 was white and perfect on the outside but the interior was pretty tore up and it did not have a limited slip. I did drive the white one and the instant mpg deal said 11. All 3 had 3.73's. I will keep looking.

Chris

 

[Builder]

actually diesl in my area is as low as 2.06 a gallon. versus 1.79 for unleaded. those ratios change on a regular basis but that is what they are now. If I keep my foot on a leash and if I drive the actual legal speed limit then unloaded I hit between 18 and 20 with my diesel. If I drive like normal I drop down to around 17 maybe 18 but that is rabbit starts and driving around 75 to 85 on the interstate. There is a higher up front price but resale should cover that if you decide later to sell.

I enjoy driving and dislike trying to drive real gently to save fuel. I just drive normally and accept the consequences. In my case, and honest 13MPG in stop/go driving driving by tach & shift points. Everytime I get in someone elses diesel truck, their computer readouts say about the same as my truck for overall MPG....usually 12-14 MPG.

 

[3500DIESEL]

why buy a stick?? the new dodge heavy dutys you cant get a stick in the hemis. the hemi in the heavy dutys might get anywere from 8-10 driving around and thats bad in my book the ford V10 or GM 6.0liter is a better choise.

 

[Builder]

Some guys are stuck on sticks

After owning a couple Allison equipped trucks, and previously driving 8LL's, Spicer 7 speeds, and a couple RTLO6613 road rangers, I know I'll never buy a stick shift again.

With the exception of a hair better fuel economy, I really can't think of anything a truck would have to do that can't be done easier with an automatic, especially now that 6 speed autos of allison & aisin quality are available. However, I know the guys that like the stick are a proud bunch, so I usually back out of these discussions.

I got the unique chance to operate a 80,000lb front discharge mixer last week around the jobsite and the allison HD series automatics in them are really dialed in nicely. You can manually shift them, just like my GMC HD, so it does give you some ability to manually shift.