BX Problem...need help!

[copperhead1967]

I'd take the line off the pump on the input side. Check flow there, let some run into a clear container and check for gunk. You can make a handy extention out of a hunk of old garden hose, just stick the line into the hose a few inches and let gravity do the rest.
I had a ongoing 3 year problem with my house oil furnace. Turned out to be small "ice balls" clogging up the filter on sub 20 degree days. I moved the filter inside and still was amazed that the filter would fill up with ice, inside the house. I ended up pulling the line up a few inches more from the bottom of the oil tank and the problem was fixed. Any half full fuel tank will sweat and water is always going to be at the bottom of the tank. Most small engine manufacturers recommend keeping your tank topped off at all times for this very reason. Most people don't do it.

Moral of the story is, something is restricting the flow. Could be debris in the tank or water freezing up in the filters or at the bottom of the tank. I'd be more suspect of this if you store your tractor in a heated area and after the water has a chance to freeze up outside.

I had one "no start" problem where you could actually see the ice in the two filters on my BX22. Seems someone had put some fuel that was drained from the heating oil tank petcock ( trying to figure out the above problem) into the tractor when they where in a hurry. I took the filters off and soaked them in warm water to melt the ice, blew them out and let them dry for a few hours. They worked fine until replaced the next maintenance interval. So I'm not buying the water clogging the paper element theory unless it was enough to freeze up and restrict the flow.
Don't know if this is of much help, but at least you know someone else has been down this road. Sometimes self inflicted.

 

[EE_Bota]

I agree with Magnatic.

Looking at the schematic on my BX2200, I have a filter before the feed pump and after the feed pump.

I would suggest the rear filter, the one before the feed pump.

The reason I suggest this is you mentioned snow. You could have a combination of frozen water and diesel wax messing up the rear filter.

Pumps blow well, but suck poorly. Most pumps can't suck it through a filter, the tank must deliver it through to the pump. The pump should then have pressure enough to pump it through the remaining filter, which should be a bit warmer due to being near the engine.

My manual doesn't tell the pressure nor the flow, but technically it only has to "raise" fuel from the lowest tank level to the highest injector pump level.

A foot of water weighs less than 1/2 psi. So even 1-2 PSI at the injector pump could be enough. But I would guess higher, though the flow might be quite low. Searching "electric fuel pump Kubota" got up a link offering pumps on ebay at 3-5 psi for $37.50 and even if not original, will likely do quite well.

 

[EE_Bota]

Be sure and look at this other discussion.
You might just need an anti-gelling agent
fuel problem - Page 2 - TractorByNet.com

 

[redharley]

WATER is my thought,filter's are cheap at the auto parts,have at it again

 

[jruss]

I have a BX2200 and thought I had a fuel pump pressure problem, pump output was only 1 1/2 psi, checked with a local dealer and was informed by the service manager that pressure was too low. Bought a new pump-still had same problem- checked pressure, 1 1/2psi on new pump. Turned out to be contaminated fuel in my case.

Long post to answer pressure question-sorry about that. Hope you find your problem soon.

 

[smallfarmer]

I had a similiar problem (2 sets of filters later) it was water related and some wax. I changed where I get my fuel, the old place was using a blend of biodiesel "up to 20 percent". I also use powerservice.
On another thread, somebody mentioned warming the fuel up as anti-gel won't disolve gelled fuel. I'm sure they meant bringing it inside a heated area for a while.

 

[Charliebrn]

Well, I keep it in an unheated pole parn, and it runs fine for at least a half hour, every single time. This is what throws me. You'd think if it was gelled fuel or something in the tank, it'd do it right away, or kind of a random thing. I'm going to buy 4 Fram 12 fuel filters today at lunch (Thank you MILKMAN!!!) We're supposed to be getting some serious snow today and tomorrow...so what I'm going to do is use it until it starts having issues and immediately change both filters. I'll let you all know what happens.

I'd much rather replace the fuel pump...and I'll order one if the filters don't make a difference. I absolutely DREAD removing the fuel tank......*sigh*

 

[TBDonnelly]

Charlie,

I had similar issues last weekend with my tractor. I'm not sure if I have the problem cured yet or not. I spoke with my dealer and he said he's had several similar calls and the problem has always been traced back to bad fuel. I've also been told the new low sulfur fuel seems to attract more moisture which also promotes algae growth.

I think I'm going to invest in a www.mrfunnel.com. I know there has been a few threads in the past discussing the Mr. Funnel. I see milkman posted he uses a Mr Funnel.

Don

 

[BXRICK]

I have a BX1500 that's 5 years old now.
The first couple of years I used it to move snow, I had similar issues. It'd run for a while, and then have almost no power, and then sometimes cycle back.
One time, it actually stalled, and I could not restart it. I towed it into the unheated but warmer garage, and the next morning it was fine. Which tells you it's ice/water related.

I have changed two things since then, and neither of them was a filter or pump:
1. I store the tractor in a shed, not out in thge elements, like I used to. No idea if this makes a difference, but it does keep the tractor from sitting with snow drifts on the gas tank, as it used to.
2. I am religious at dumping a lot of treatment into the fuel I buy, as soon as I buy it. I don't use all that much fuel, so it can sit for quite a while.

 

[Tom_H]

The fact that it's running for awhile then doing this makes me think something is floating around in the tank, finally gets sucked down to the outlet port, restricts flow, partial vacuum builds until more fuel can flow in again, etc. and the trash is oscillating at the outlet: open, close, open, close. etc. When put away, the trash finally floats away again. This oscillation makes me think it has to be fuel flow related. A bad fuel pump could be possible. I thought about a bad injector pump, but that would not create this cycling. If it were oscillation/restriction of air flow, that should start sooner. You did replace BOTH of the TWO filters, correct?

 

[jimmer2880]

Not to get completely into left field. But - there was a guy having a similiar problem. I don't remember if it was in the Parts forum or the Yanmar forum.

Anyway - his problem ended up being air in the fuel line between the pump & the injectors. He ended up finding it (after having the fuel pump rebuilt) by connecting a clear hose between the pump & the injectors, making sure it had an up-side down "U" in it to collect the air.

I hope this isn't your problem, but if nothing else works - keep this in the back of your mind.

 

[ampsucker]

another thought from left field: how about the governor? sometimes they get a little sticky if not lubed. folks forget the throttle lever is really just a "request" for engine rpm. it's actually the governor that sets engine speed based on load.

amp

 

[SPYDERLK]

Well, I keep it in an unheated pole parn, and it runs fine for at least a half hour, every single time. This is what throws me. You'd think if it was gelled fuel or something in the tank, it'd do it right away, or kind of a random thing. I'm going to buy 4 Fram 12 fuel filters today at lunch (Thank you MILKMAN!!!) We're supposed to be getting some serious snow today and tomorrow...so what I'm going to do is use it until it starts having issues and immediately change both filters. I'll let you all know what happens.

I'd much rather replace the fuel pump...and I'll order one if the filters don't make a difference. I absolutely DREAD removing the fuel tank......*sigh*

The problem is a partially clogged fuel filter causing too much resistance to flow. Putting fuel thru the filter slowly closes the pleating resulting in less filter area and more and more pressure difference across the element. The element pleats close more. When the chain reaction closes it enuf it goes critical as youve seen. When you turn it off for a while the filter pleats slowly expand back to normal and then will run good for awhile before it repeats. Change the rear filter again at least. Maybe both. Your pump is ok.
larry

 

[leonz]

I have an almost 3 year old BX2350. Been running great the whole time until 4 days ago. Here are the symptoms:

After running for a while moving snow at rated RPM @3000, about half hour or 45 minutes, it starts to bog downfor a few seconds, maybe5 or 10 seconds, then comes right up to speed for about 30-40 seconds. Once it starts doing this, it gets more and more frequent until in about 15 minutes, its like a roller coaster, up, then right back down.

When it first happened, I thought I got some bad fuel. I drained the tank completely, put in new fuel filters and bought all new fuel from a known good source (a local Sunoco that moves a fair amount of diesel) I also put in some fuel conditioner and anti-gel..PowerService. It ran decent yesterday for about 3 hours, so I thought i licked it, but tonight, right back to the same problem.


Since the fuel problem with the filters is constant I would buy a new racor diesel fule filter with th clear plastic bowl and barb fittings to connect the filter to the hose from the tank.

the Racor acts as a centrifuge to get all the crap out period and it setles to the bottom of the clear housing and it has a drain valve which twists open and closed to get rid of the dirt and water-and you will see the water too!

Any thoughts? I can hear the fuel pump running even after it starts having the problem, but don't know how those fail....

Oh, one other thing, it doesn't seem to matter if its under a load or not. I've put it in Neutral, turned off the lights, and taken the strain off the hydraulics, and it'll continue to do the roller coaster thing with the RPMs. It will even occasionally shut off when the RPMs go way down, but will restart just fine and continue the issue...

Thanks in advance....

You need to buy a Racor diesel fuel filter with the clear plastic bowl it has a centrifuge to spin all the dirt and water out of the fuel. They are a little pricey but the quality and piece of mind is worth every penny- like a good kubota tractor.

 

[Charliebrn]

I want to thank everyone here for all the great ideas. It's been a while since I've been active here and I'd temporarily forgotten how invaluable all of you are.

An update: I went out and bought all 3 Fram P12 filters that Walmart had. $9 total. (the Kubota filters at the dealer were $12 EACH) No, they aren't exactly the same size...the metal bands holding them in place are slightly too small for the Fram, but they work just fine... I'll zip tie them in place temporarily....and when this is all done I might buy the Kubota ones again...just to keep my dealer happy... the guy is great, and usually his prices are just fine, and I don't mind spending a little extra at his place.

Anyway, I fired up the tractor last night, it ran just fine for a half hour. Ran it again tonight and 5 minutes into my snow removal, the thing went back to the problem, bogged way down, practically stayed like that all the way back to the barn. I got everything ready while the thing chugged at@900 rpm (the throttle wide open); shut it off and replaced the rear filter (between the tank and the fuel pump). fired it back up and it ran great for another 45 minutes.

I cracked open the bad filter...there is black slimy stuff in it...It looks like someone here mentioned fungus????. Anyway, I'll replace that rear one again if it happens again, which it might until all that stuff is through the sytem. Hopefully, this will cure it. We're due for a blizzard tomorrow till Thursday...I'll let you all know how it goes.

And that Racor....I think i want one. Where do you buy it, and how much does it cost. And yea, I' think I'll be getting a good filtering funnel too...this has been painful....

Thanks again guys....

 

[amigauser]

I cracked open the bad filter...there is black slimy stuff in it...It looks like someone here mentioned fungus????.

The black slimy stuff is microbes growing in your fuel.

This is a good article -
Source Of Diesel Fuel Problems

 

[milkman]

I want to thank everyone here for all the great ideas. It's been a while since I've been active here and I'd temporarily forgotten how invaluable all of you are.

An update: I went out and bought all 3 Fram P12 filters that Walmart had. $9 total. (the Kubota filters at the dealer were $12 EACH) No, they aren't exactly the same size...the metal bands holding them in place are slightly too small for the Fram, but they work just fine... I'll zip tie them in place temporarily....and when this is all done I might buy the Kubota ones again...just to keep my dealer happy... the guy is great, and usually his prices are just fine, and I don't mind spending a little extra at his place.

Anyway, I fired up the tractor last night, it ran just fine for a half hour. Ran it again tonight and 5 minutes into my snow removal, the thing went back to the problem, bogged way down, practically stayed like that all the way back to the barn. I got everything ready while the thing chugged at@900 rpm (the throttle wide open); shut it off and replaced the rear filter (between the tank and the fuel pump). fired it back up and it ran great for another 45 minutes.

I cracked open the bad filter...there is black slimy stuff in it...It looks like someone here mentioned fungus????. Anyway, I'll replace that rear one again if it happens again, which it might until all that stuff is through the sytem. Hopefully, this will cure it. We're due for a blizzard tomorrow till Thursday...I'll let you all know how it goes.

And that Racor....I think i want one. Where do you buy it, and how much does it cost. And yea, I' think I'll be getting a good filtering funnel too...this has been painful....

Thanks again guys....

Just wanted to let you know, I am still running my original Kubota fuel filter that is under the hood and I have 700+ hours on mine, have only changed the filter under the floor, it has caught everything so far that has come out of the tank and the only thing I've used is the Fram G12 and I too zip tie it to the bracket. Great minds think alike.

 

[TBDonnelly]

Milkman,

What size Mr. Funnel did you buy and are you satisfied with the time it takes the fuel to pass through the filter? I seem to remember reading about it taking a while to get through the filter??

Don

 

[LBrown59]

Charlie,

I had similar issues last weekend with my tractor. I'm not sure if I have the problem cured yet or not. I spoke with my dealer and he said he's had several similar calls and the problem has always been traced back to bad fuel. I've also been told the new low sulfur fuel seems to attract more moisture which also promotes algae growth.

I think I'm going to invest in a www.mrfunnel.com. I know there has been a few threads in the past discussing the Mr. Funnel. I see milkman posted he uses a Mr Funnel.

Don

mrfunnel is what i used before i got this.

 

[LBrown59]

I have a BX1500 that's 5 years old now.
The first couple of years I used it to move snow, I had similar issues. It'd run for a while, and then have almost no power, and then sometimes cycle back.
One time, it actually stalled, and I could not restart it. I towed it into the unheated but warmer garage, and the next morning it was fine. Which tells you it's ice/water related.

I have changed two things since then, and neither of them was a filter or pump:
1. I store the tractor in a shed, not out in the elements, like I used to. No idea if this makes a difference, but it does keep the tractor from sitting with snow drifts on the gas tank, as it used to.
2. I am religious at dumping a lot of treatment into the fuel I buy, as soon as I buy it. I don't use all that much fuel, so it can sit for quite a while.

I only fill the taller drum.
I don't fill it unless it is completely empty.
I use 32 ounces of PS white bottle per each 55 gallon of diesel.