Even the upgraded alternator.has limits

[escavader]

Could have a bad cell in the battery. Make sure the belt isn't slipping and the alternator is putting out. My bets are with the battery......

JOhn

JOHN,
What is the best way to test the alternator?Ihave a harbor frieght battery and alternator tester[with load check] Wher should i put the leads,on the battery while its running?Idid that tonight got 10 volts ,shut off tractor still got 10 volts.ALT BELT is tight.

 

[rdsaustintx]

did you just upgrade your alternator? if so, check the output connection. just a random suggestion, but mine came loose about 5 hours after the alternator upgrade. lotta vibration there.

 

[johnk]

JOHN,
What is the best way to test the alternator?Ihave a harbor frieght battery and alternator tester[with load check] Wher should i put the leads,on the battery while its running?Idid that tonight got 10 volts ,shut off tractor still got 10 volts.ALT BELT is tight.

The shunt usually attaches to the alternator terminal and will give you the amps the ALternator is putting out. . It's been quite a while since I used one but I'm sure someone on here will know for sure..

 

[Mike Costello]

Try this:



Disconnect battery cables from battery(leave battery in tractor)
Recharge battery for at least one to two hours and retest. Load test with your tester for a minimum of 15-30 seconds. Battery should not drop below 9.6 volts. Replace if it can't pass this test. Reason: The battery is the heart of the electrical system and MUST be in good shape, otherwise true readings are suspect.
Alternator--most alternators will keep a good battery charged. Higher amp alternators just do a little better job. Alternator should be putting out 14V-14.5V at medium idle. Any voltage higher than that will cook the battery. Constant use of a bad battery can cause the alternator to fail (usually blown diodes) because it can't keep up.
In my automotive experience 90% of the time it usually turns out the battery is either worn out or becomes defective. Thats why its important to have a known good battery.

 

[638]

Check the main fuse off of the altenator. You may have cooked it trying to keep up with all of you lights, etc.

 

[escavader]

Check the main fuse off of the altenator. You may have cooked it trying to keep up with all of you lights, etc.

Ron ,
Idid this allready did a continuity test on them fuses they are fine.
The head mechanic in our shop [350 trucks on road each day,hundreds of lift trucks etc]says his guess would be a bad plate in the battery .Battery wont take a charge when its jiggling around,when its still it does.Wether it is or not,he thinks its definately the battery,wants me to put in a different one and try it.He says alternator should put out a constant 14 something volts and where its been all over the place ,he thinks its the battery.Iasked if it could have a bad regulator for the inconsistant voltage,he said hes never seen it on a new alternator,and that a bad battery does some real weird thingsIasked my neighbor whos head mechanic in another shop,his vote is battery too.Alot of you voted battery ,so im swapping it out to a known good one[from my plow truck.]Idid call where i bought the alternator and told them of my issues before my 30 day warrenty runs out.Will keep you posted
ALAN

 

[Firefighter Kubota]

Escavader, what was the cost of your upgraded alternator? Kubota or aftermarket?

Thanks...

 

[escavader]

Escavader, what was the cost of your upgraded alternator? Kubota or aftermarket?

Thanks...

200- I think it wAs KUBOTA KIT in the salesmans book,not in the parts dept COMPUTER as a kit,but you could order the peices.Kind of strange
ALAN

 

[BobRip]

While you have the old battery out, put a charger on it. If it does not come up to 12.5 volts after the charge, then it is definitely bad. If it's erratic then you don't really know if is good. A swap out test (which you are doing) is good to, but if you have the charger then why not.

 

[escavader]

While you have the old battery out, put a charger on it. If it does not come up to 12.5 volts after the charge, then it is definitely bad. If it's erratic then you don't really know if is good. A swap out test (which you are doing) is good to, but if you have the charger then why not.

BOB RIP,
Its fully charged now ,i believe it is at that.The way my mechanic friend explained it to me,with a bad plate .Ican fully charge on top only,but the bottom of the cell could be dead.SO it may read fully charged ,but its not.Ijust think its crazy ,it worked fine with the DYNAMO.but i didnt have my cab then,and didnt use much power.Tractor is onlyabout 4 years old ,but thats about all i get out of my riding mower batterys .Iworked the tractor to death this year doing loader work,i could have a broken plate?
ALAN

 

[BobRip]

Alan, if you take a four year old battery (I assume it's the original) and run it down even to 50%, the odds are pretty good that will finish it. I would rarely feel bad about replacing a 4 year old battery. You just still need to make sure that is the only problem. Also don't over load the electrical system for extended periods. Sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck.

 

[Hvytrkmech]

16v for extended operating periods will literally cook, and boil out your battery. 14v is the norm for a 12v system across the board. You should check the electrolyte level of you battery and top off each cell as necessary. If you have room, a larger, higher capacity battery will be a wise upgrade.

Ithink the alternator was working overtime to charge that battery back up

It was cooking your battery as well as being overloaded.

When alternators are cold they put out higher voltage to compensate for the fact that you just ran the battery down starting the engine. As long as it drops to 14 or so after warm up then you are OK.

Sorry Bob, you are absolutely incorrect.

Thank you BOB RIP,Its what i thought .After i charged the battery with my charger and retested it was putting out 14 something.
alan

See below

Well knock me down.Iran the tractor 2 hours and the battery is deader than a doornail Less than 10 amps and that was runningNo lights at all last 1/2 hour.Iwas very easy on the electrics ran 4 55 w lights and heater on low and did not run them all the time .Someone said something about having to EXCITE AN ALTERNATOR how do you do that? Igot something going on faulty regulator ???? The system workes fine with the old dynamo,i wouldnt think it was my battery.Ihave my plow truck battery i can install it and try i guess.ANY THOUGHTS????
ALAN

Your battery is smoked as a result of the over charging. You may have a regulator issue. What ever the cause of the overcharging, it must be rectified before throwing a new battery in the tractor or you will be doing the same thing all over again. The alternator gets "excited" from a 12v lead, the 12v creates the field so the alternator will produce voltage. There should be a fuse on the 12v lead, check that and make sure it is not blown. The upgraded alternator has an internal regulator. Did you use the bypass plug that comes with the kit? Check all your grounds. Did you check the output voltage at the alternator or the battery?

 

[Hvytrkmech]

Escavader, what was the cost of your upgraded alternator? Kubota or aftermarket?

Thanks...

I got mine at my kubota dealer. It was $175.00 out the door and came as a complete kit, which included the following.

New 40a internally regulated alternator
New adjustment bracket
New mounting bolts and spacer
New belt
New wiring with bypass plug
New oil dipstick, (you have to remove the old d/s tube)

It took me appx 2.5 hours to install. It can be done faster but I wanted to run it nice and clean and re wrap everything in new wire loom. All in all a simple job. It works very well.


Tim

 

[escavader]

It was cooking your battery as well as being overloaded.




Sorry Bob, you are absolutely incorrect.

My mechanic friend also said it shouls not be higher than 14 something.Iwas wrong too

See below



Your battery is smoked as a result of the over charging. You may have a regulator issue. What ever the cause of the overcharging, it must be rectified before throwing a new battery in the tractor or you will be doing the same thing all over again. The alternator gets "excited" from a 12v lead, the 12v creates the field so the alternator will produce voltage. There should be a fuse on the 12v lead, check that and make sure it is not blown. The upgraded alternator has an internal regulator. Did you use the bypass plug that comes with the kit? Check all your grounds. Did you check the output voltage at the alternator or the battery?

Ichecked my grounds.battery was 12 volts today passed load test.Istill changed it.Idont know what your reffering to as by pass plug,i had to unhook some things and hook up the wireing harness supplyed.Isimply followed the directions.fuses are not blown.Did a continuity test on them to make sure.Inoticed with the newer battery the battery light wasnt on like before.EVERYTHING worked good today while blowing,but being daytime ,i only used the heater and revolving light.
Idont think we had the same kit.No adapter for dipstick tube,wasnt any issue with it i remember.no belt in my kit,it said use original,and it fit fine.

 

[BobRip]

It was cooking your battery as well as being overloaded.




Sorry Bob, you are absolutely incorrect.



See below





Your battery is smoked as a result of the over charging. You may have a regulator issue. What ever the cause of the overcharging, it must be rectified before throwing a new battery in the tractor or you will be doing the same thing all over again. The alternator gets "excited" from a 12v lead, the 12v creates the field so the alternator will produce voltage. There should be a fuse on the 12v lead, check that and make sure it is not blown. The upgraded alternator has an internal regulator. Did you use the bypass plug that comes with the kit? Check all your grounds. Did you check the output voltage at the alternator or the battery?

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I was under the impression that 16 volts was not available for an extended period, just during a warm up. I don't know the exact time of the warm up, but it's probably only a few minutes. This was confirmed by escavader's measurement of 14 volts after warm up. I am not an expert, but this is from general articles that I have read and what I have seen on car's voltmeter. Please correct me if I am wrong so I can learn. Also his battery tested OK, so it was not fried by the short term 16 volts.

 

[BobRip]

By the way, a loaded alternator will not maintain around 14 volts with the engine at idle. If does not put out its full current at that RPM. Also I think the tester you were using pulls about 100 amps. The voltage will definitely drop on that. I usually test an alternator with the engine around 1500 RPM and a load (such as the lights) turned on. The load must be less that the alternator rating. It should then maintain the voltage of around 14.

 

[escavader]

BOB,
uuummm,Idont know why it said originally posted by escavader ,in the box,if you read back it wasnt my post,however i did reply to it.
Iasked my mechanic friend why i had 16 volts,he said i shouldnt have,but a defective plate in a battery will do some really wacky thing,Idont really know ,myself which is correct ,im learning from everybody else
ALAN

 

[escavader]

Different battery,that i know is good[PLOW TRUCK BATTERY].Used tractor this morning with lights and heater on for 40 minutes.KUBOTA,wouldnt start back up.tested tonight 12 volts in batterylight was on.left tester on ,reved up tractor ,light went off but charger stayed at 12 volt.This alternator is a peice of crapIll check wiring 1 more time ,then im ripping it out,and get a replacement
frustrated.

 

[Hvytrkmech]

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I was under the impression that 16 volts was not available for an extended period, just during a warm up. I don't know the exact time of the warm up, but it's probably only a few minutes. This was confirmed by escavader's measurement of 14 volts after warm up. I am not an expert, but this is from general articles that I have read and what I have seen on car's voltmeter. Please correct me if I am wrong so I can learn. Also his battery tested OK, so it was not fried by the short term 16 volts.[/QUOTE]


No problem Bob. I apologize if I came across rudely, it was not my intention.

In order to provide 16v intentional you would need an electronically monitored and controlled charging system. When we start our diesel engines they pull a large load (amps) off the battery (which you know). Once the engine starts the alternator answers the increased load demand from the battery, this higher amp load actually decreases voltage for a short time. A charging system in good working order will self equalize shortly after starting, voltage will usually decrease as amperage increases, (dependent on alt capacity).


Tim

 

[Hvytrkmech]

Different battery,that i know is good[PLOW TRUCK BATTERY].Used tractor this morning with lights and heater on for 40 minutes.KUBOTA,wouldnt start back up.tested tonight 12 volts in batterylight was on.left tester on ,reved up tractor ,light went off but charger stayed at 12 volt.This alternator is a peice of crapIll check wiring 1 more time ,then im ripping it out,and get a replacement
frustrated.

It does not take much to reach the limit of a 40a alt. Your heater definitely draws a lot, that coupled with all 4 of your work light on and you may have wiped out the alt. Do you have all the lights on the same circuit, or are they split up?


Tim