Gas Price Gougers #&@%!

[MikePA]

Does the fact that only 900 may die instead of 2000 change the intent of this thread any?

Words have meaning as do facts. 1,200 is not thousands.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm 200 miles inland and have never experienced a hurricane. Rita was right after Katrina, and had the potential to cause severe flooding in our area when she came through here, but she fizzled out by the time she got here.

The projected path of Gustov has it headed right for Tyler and with the size and power of this storm, it could be really bad. I bought ten gallons of gasoline for my generator, and the more I'm reading, the more gas I want to buy. I'm going to buy another 20 gallons today and stock up on some supplies. We're good on groceries, but don't have very much water stored up. If we get some flooding, drinking water is something that we might not have since we're on city water.

Since this is something new to me/us, what do you guys recomend that we have on hand? No need to board up windows or any of that, but more along the lines of what to expect or need in case we get hit by severe weather that really dumps allot of rain on us and floods the creeks to the point the roads are not driveable.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[tallyho8]

Words have meaning as do facts. 1,200 is not thousands.

I did not say thousands WILL die. I said thousands MAY die.

I am glad you are able to foresee the future and KNOW that thousands will not die. Now I am a lot more comfortable.

 

[tallyho8]

If you're getting out of town high prices serve a purpose. They remind us that we need to think about whether we need gas and that wherever we're going should have cheaper gas. Buy a few gallons at the inflated prices just to get out and then pull over 50 miles outside of town for a little cheaper gas. Repeat until you get where you're going or gas is cheap enough to fill your tank. You pay a few cents more but the people who can't leave (and emergency services vehicles who need to be there) still have gas.

As Katrina approached there were hundreds (maybe even thousands) of abandoned autos lining I-10 and Hwy 90 as people ran out of gas while trying to evacuate. They figured they could make it to the next town to refuel but didn't realize how much the highways were gridlocked and it took hours to just go 5 miles and run out of gas. Most of these autos were bulldozed out of the way, stripped by looters, and the taxpayers wound up paying to get them hauled off and crushed.

The government control method shares the cost among the tax base, but is yet another thing the government regulates and tends to punish the wealthy (who pay the most taxes to support it but wouldn't be eligible for the free busing).

Luckily the government is not discriminating against the wealthy and they also, are eligible for free evacuation if they stand in line and manage to get evacuated before the storm hits.

And you are correct that the wealthy pay for it (I am appalled at my yearly tax bill) but you can not get the money from people who do not have it and Americans have too much sympathy to just let the poor do without.

I am equally distressed at the millions of dollars this evacuation will cost the taxpayers and I realize there is a good chance that the hurricane will miss the area and the money will have been completely wasted. Then this scenario will repeat itself many times over the coming years with many more millions of dollars being wasted with needless evacuations. Then the big one hits, just like Katrina did, and the people are weary of having evacuated needlessly so many times recently and stay home. Then tragedy. I wish I knew how to prevent this needless loss of millions of dollars to the taxpayers and how to prevent others from losing their lives but I am sure that history will repeat itself as it always does.

 

[MikePA]

I did not say thousands WILL die. I said thousands MAY die.

As long as you're talking about how many may die, why not just say TENS OF THOUSANDS may die. As I said, such hyperbole brings back memories of Ray Nagin which is all I need to know about the purpose of this thread.

 

[tallyho8]

I'm 200 miles inland and have never experienced a hurricane. Rita was right after Katrina, and had the potential to cause severe flooding in our area when she came through here, but she fizzled out by the time she got here.

The projected path of Gustov has it headed right for Tyler and with the size and power of this storm, it could be really bad. I bought ten gallons of gasoline for my generator, and the more I'm reading, the more gas I want to buy. I'm going to buy another 20 gallons today and stock up on some supplies. We're good on groceries, but don't have very much water stored up. If we get some flooding, drinking water is something that we might not have since we're on city water.

Since this is something new to me/us, what do you guys recomend that we have on hand? No need to board up windows or any of that, but more along the lines of what to expect or need in case we get hit by severe weather that really dumps allot of rain on us and floods the creeks to the point the roads are not driveable.

Thanks,
Eddie

If you are on high enough ground that you don't have to worry about your home flooding then you should experience no major problems. You have the groceries so water is the essential thing to store. Get a few containers of drinking water and fill your bathtub to have plenty of water to use to flush the toilet. Having a small window air conditioner in one room is a good way to keep cool when your generator can not handle the central ac or it requires too much gas to run it several days if your power is out. Flashlights and batteries are essentials.

 

[tallyho8]

As long as you're talking about how many may die, why not just say TENS OF THOUSANDS may die. As I said, such hyperbole brings back memories of Ray Nagin which is all I need to know about the purpose of this thread.

I am sure that my feelings about Ray Nagin are the same as yours and I am also sure that all the unfavorable and sensationalized publicity that New Orleans received after Kartrina has many people desensitized to the plight of the majority who are no different than your friends and neighbors.

The rampant looting and despicable behavior by some after Katrina and the billions of tax dollars spent with much wasted to rebuild the area has many people actually despising residents of this area and no longer feeling any compassion for them and nothing I can say or do will change these people's feelings as they are partially deserved. I will not attempt to defend the actions of these people as I loathe them as much as you obviously do. But there are still TENS OF THOUSANDS of good people in the area who do deserve our compassion.

 

[tallyho8]

I didn't realize you were expecting the gas stations to provide charity, which is a fine thing, if you have the wherewithall to do it. How much gas are you going to buy for those other poor souls who need it? I would assume if you expect the gas stations to provide charity, you will also. And I admire you for that.

Bird,
I am sure that you have not read the entire thread and do not realize that I am not necessarily blaming the gouging on the individual station owners. They are forced to raise their prices if the distributor raises theirs. And the distributor is forced to raise his prices if the refinery raises their price. However, the refinery is not forced to raise it's prices during a disaster if it knows that it's costs for the product will be lowered in the coming months.

 

[Bird]

Bird,
I am sure that you have not read the entire thread and do not realize that I am not necessarily blaming the gouging on the individual station owners. They are forced to raise their prices if the distributor raises theirs. And the distributor is forced to raise his prices if the refinery raises their price. However, the refinery is not forced to raise it's prices during a disaster if it knows that it's costs for the product will be lowered in the coming months.

Yes, Dudley, I've read the entire thread. So you're not blaming the station owners or the distributor, but now you're blaming the refineries. Maybe that's justified, and maybe it's not. You say they know their cost for the product will be lowered in the coming months. First, I'm not sure that's true, but it may be. At least I understand where you're getting that opinion. But do they know whether the refineries will even survive the hurricane, and if they do, do you think they know what it will cost to repair things and get back in business, and will their employees be there to go back to work or not?

My point is that, yes, there may be some unreasonable price gouging going on, but there are just too many factors and/or questions to which you and I have too little information to form a valid opinion either way.

I am equally distressed at the millions of dollars this evacuation will cost the taxpayers and I realize there is a good chance that the hurricane will miss the area and the money will have been completely wasted. Then this scenario will repeat itself many times over the coming years with many more millions of dollars being wasted with needless evacuations. Then the big one hits, just like Katrina did, and the people are weary of having evacuated needlessly so many times recently and stay home. Then tragedy. I wish I knew how to prevent this needless loss of millions of dollars to the taxpayers and how to prevent others from losing their lives but I am sure that history will repeat itself as it always does.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I agree completely. The puzzle to me is: (1) why they built New Orleans on such low ground to start with, many, many years ago, and (2) why anyone would be living there unless he/she had to.

 

[MikePA]

From Findlaw
"Now, let's look at a standard that's specific, but wrongheaded. In some states, price gouging is said to occur when goods or services cost anywhere between 10 to 25 percent more than they did prior to a declared emergency. But such a standard fails to provide any flexibility for costs associated with the need to conserve resources during a time of crisis.

Louisiana's statute is a bit better. It prohibits price gouging during a state of emergency -- as declared by the governor, or by the parish president. And it caps prices (at the price previously "ordinarily charged for comparable goods and services in the same market area").

But importantly, it also allows businesses to pass on increased costs for "reasonable expenses and a charge for any attendant business risk, in addition to the cost of the goods and services which necessarily are incurred in procuring the goods and services during the state of emergency".

That makes sense: The statute incentivizes merchants to incur risks, by allowing them to be compensated for doing so. It also protects them from having to buy high (from price-gougers) and then sell low, if they want to comply with the law.

And it recognizes that merchants, too, need to go on with their lives: If these merchants sell out their entire supply of necessities, there is no guarantee that they will get replacement goods, in order to earn their own living, in the months to come in places like New Orleans."

A 40 cent increase probably represents less than a 10% price increase.