Yuchai steering clutch brake bands

[Bob Rooks]

Steering clutch brake bands, and my postulation for modifying the existing lining (including replacing the aluminum rivets with brass), or completely relining with segments from new friction material instead of the "fire hose" type OEM lining.

The light colored band has the worst rivet job I've ever seen some rivets are not even countersunk. The dark colored band is the second worse job some rivets have separated and bulged the lining. Even the end clip is randomly riveted (which is not really a concern).

 

[MRTOES]

Bob
I contacted you some time ago about Farm Pro Yuchai steering clutches being stuck regarding your expertise. As I discussed, I filled my chamber with Marvel oil and it took no time to free up the steering clutch by driving the dozer. I will have to tear it back down, however to replace the brake band. After seeing this post I was wondering if you had any suggestions as to possibly using a material that would allow running the clutch and brake in a wet solution of say transmission fluid or some other light oil? Not sure there would be enough friction on the drum but just throwing this out. Your advice would be appreciated. Thanks BobC

 

[Bob Rooks]

Bob
I contacted you some time ago about Farm Pro Yuchai steering clutches being stuck regarding your expertise. As I discussed, I filled my chamber with Marvel oil and it took no time to free up the steering clutch by driving the dozer. I will have to tear it back down, however to replace the brake band. After seeing this post I was wondering if you had any suggestions as to possibly using a material that would allow running the clutch and brake in a wet solution of say transmission fluid or some other light oil? Not sure there would be enough friction on the drum but just throwing this out. Your advice would be appreciated. Thanks BobC

Hi Bob,
Good suggestion, and not a bad idea. There are obvious benefits to running wet steering clutches, but in this case there are a few issues that need to be addressed. Here's my take on it.
Sealing the compartment to prevent cross contamination of oils in the transmission and final drive compartments.
1) The lip seals as installed are to keep oils IN their respective compartments, not to keep other oils out. You would have to devise a double-opposing lip seal to prevent cross contamination and dilution of the other oils. Such a seal may already be available but size may be a hurdle.

2) The clutch discs are sintered bronze, and would have no problem running wet. They are virtually the same as found in Paragon and Borg Warner marine and fork lift transmissions.

3) Brake bands. Here lies a real challenge, but doable in my opinion. The bands would need a segmented sintered bronze arced lining equivalent in thickness to the friction material, and about one-and-a-half to two inches long. They cannot be riveted - must be bonded, so I don't see this as a DYI process (at least not for me). Back in the day Cat and others used wet clutches quite well for a long time.

 

[ultrarunner]

I switched from riveted to bonded in the antique cars.

The woven lining is called Scandinavian...at least with the old cars...

When the D3 needed bands I found Peterson Tractor a CAT dealer was faster and NOT more expensive...

 

[Bob Rooks]

I switched from riveted to bonded in the antique cars.

Yep, did that myself.

The woven lining is called Scandinavian...at least with the old cars...

When the D3 needed bands I found Peterson Tractor a CAT dealer was faster and NOT more expensive...

That was with much heavier viscosity oil. The sintered bronze steering clutch pack here won't like that.

 

[MRTOES]

Hi Bob,
Good suggestion, and not a bad idea. There are obvious benefits to running wet steering clutches, but in this case there are a few issues that need to be addressed. Here's my take on it.
Sealing the compartment to prevent cross contamination of oils in the transmission and final drive compartments.
1) The lip seals as installed are to keep oils IN their respective compartments, not to keep other oils out. You would have to devise a double-opposing lip seal to prevent cross contamination and dilution of the other oils. Such a seal may already be available but size may be a hurdle.

2) The clutch discs are sintered bronze, and would have no problem running wet. They are virtually the same as found in Paragon and Borg Warner marine and fork lift transmissions.

3) Brake bands. Here lies a real challenge, but doable in my opinion. The bands would need a segmented sintered bronze arced lining equivalent in thickness to the friction material, and about one-and-a-half to two inches long. They cannot be riveted - must be bonded, so I don't see this as a DYI process (at least not for me). Back in the day Cat and others used wet clutches quite well for a long time.

Thanks Bob for your reply. I have been looking around for bonding prices. They are quite expensive but doable. I won't be tearing down again until this winter. I considered doing "same fluid" on both sides but haven't ran that thought all the way through yet.
Will see how it goes.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Thanks Bob for your reply. I have been looking around for bonding prices. They are quite expensive but doable. I won't be tearing down again until this winter. I considered doing "same fluid" on both sides but haven't ran that thought all the way through yet.
Will see how it goes.

Same oils will not work. The transmission/bevel gear case uses SAE 80W-90 gear oil (anything heavier will be difficult shifting). The final drives use SAE 140 or SAE 240 gear oil. The sintered bronze components will not work satisfactory, if at all, with those lubricants. Too viscous.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Here's one for ya. Years ago I thought about making the dozer full hydraulic by gutting the clutch, transmission, bevel gear, and steering clutch/brakes. and installing skid steer pumps, valves, and drive motors.

 

[MRTOES]

Same oils will not work. The transmission/bevel gear case uses SAE 80W-90 gear oil (anything heavier will be difficult shifting). The final drives use SAE 140 or SAE 240 gear oil. The sintered bronze components will not work satisfactory, if at all, with those lubricants. Too viscous.

Thanks Bob. Speaking of shifting I am going to say this about the regular transmissions in the dozers. I assume they are the same ones as in the 30 hp Jinma tractor. I like those tractors and have one, sold a few. One nightmare problem I have seen twice. Shifter fork breaks. Falls into gears. If you do not stop IMMEDIATELY gear teeth break off. This requires a break down of complete transmission AND rear end. On a dozer this will be a night mare. So if you ever feel this happen STOP IMMEDIATELY AND TAKE TOP PLATE OFF.

 

[Bob Rooks]

I had the shift cover off, opened up the bevel gear case and final drives when I did a 800 hour inspection. All looked pretty good.

 

[MRTOES]

Nice rig. Those rubber tracks come with dozer? Mine is a Farm Pro model with metal ones that for some reason are narrower than the Northern models. FP was bad about looking for bargains and close outs and shot themselves in the foot being cheap.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Nice rig. Those rubber tracks come with dozer? Mine is a Farm Pro model with metal ones that for some reason are narrower than the Northern models. FP was bad about looking for bargains and close outs and shot themselves in the foot being cheap.

Yep. I custom ordered the dozer specifying rubber tracks and a FEL attachment. Also ordered a backhoe attachment along with it, but no longer have it. What you have are the standard width tracks, the Northern Tool models all had the LGP tracks. Rubber tracks for these are available from several domestic sources. Worth noting though, is the the rubber track swing frames have five bottom rollers, whereas the steel track models have four (each side), but it's easy to add one more.

 

[MRTOES]

I switched from riveted to bonded in the antique cars.

The woven lining is called Scandinavian...at least with the old cars...

When the D3 needed bands I found Peterson Tractor a CAT dealer was faster and NOT more expensive...

Bob I got my Dozer out and tried to use it after removing the Marvel Mystery Oil from the one steering clutch since it had freed up. Only pushing some small brush stuff up. I noticed after a while I was getting slippage or no power. I can't say it is not the main clutch but the sound and feel makes me wonder if both the steering clutches might be slipping at once. The one I soaked might have reason to but not sure about the other. I don't look forward to putting the main clutch in it. Any thoughts?

 

[Bob Rooks]

Did you remove the drain plugs from both steering clutch compartments? Also the drain from the main clutch (flywheel housing)?

 

[MRTOES]

Did you remove the drain plugs from both steering clutch compartments? Also the drain from the main clutch (flywheel housing)?

Did not. Should not be anything in the right one but who knows.... Thanks. The slippage is a rough one like gears almost mating not a quiet slip of a clutch.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Did not. Should not be anything in the right one but who knows.... Thanks. The slippage is a rough one like gears almost mating not a quiet slip of a clutch.

Could be a leaking seal in the right compartment, letting final drive or transmission oils in, just a thought. The "rough slippage" sound sounds like main clutch chatter - possibly the disc is down to the rivets. Have you tried adjusting the main clutch?

 

[MRTOES]

Have not. I want to tear it down for both side inspection of the steering clutches and new brake bands this winter Don't know if I can get a look at the disk or not. The Jinma 30 tractor (same drive line as mine) is pretty easy on clutch till it needs one and then it needs one. (The 25's not so much...they are smaller and tend to slip all the time so much I put ceramic discs in lots of those...tried on one 30 but didn't work out because of way it was lined)
It may be a couple of months but I will get back to you, probably for more expertise. thanks.