Yanmar 424 low power and comparisation with Kubota

[maciek8791]

Hello,

I am planning to buy a tractor. Main use is for landscaping and daily garden work with my wife. However we have also some warehouses which we rent and the area near of them is a mess (2mt high grass). We want to make it all clear and plain, plant grass and just move it each week. Our desired setup is a machine with front loader and middle mover deck.

I was just about to pull the trigger on yanmar 424. I love the position and the control of the front loader. I am affraid little bit if it will not be too heavy for the garden (with FL, MMD etc). The seller suggested to go with industrial tires (not grass tires) for better traction with the FL.

However there is just one problem. When I did the test drive, there seems to be a slow reaction and not so much power from Yanmar. The machine seems to be lazy, there is weak rensponse. The pedal is fully pressed, the pomp is whining and slowely it's moving but really I had impression like something is wrong. I tried L gear, H gear, we had however 4x4 all the time on.

I did another test yesterday - with much smaller tractor kubota bx231 and quess what, no problem with power, runs very fast, however no front loader was attached, just 200L sprayer in the back.

Do You guys have any idea why I have this impression? Is Kubota simply a better tracktor with better hydrostatic pump? Or maybe yanmar had a front loader, and its also more heavy?

best regards
Maciej

 

[rScotty]

Hello,


SNIP
I did another test yesterday - with much smaller tractor kubota bx231 and quess what, no problem with power, runs very fast, however no front loader was attached, just 200L sprayer in the back.

Do You guys have any idea why I have this impression? Is Kubota simply a better tracktor with better hydrostatic pump? Or maybe yanmar had a front loader, and its also more heavy?

best regards
Maciej

I think you are just looking for some experienced opinions here, so let me offer the following:

There is not all that much difference in roughly similar small tractors - especially new ones. There is even less difference when you are just doing a test drive and not asking it to do any real work. What you are feeling just does not sound right to me.

Even with the weight of a loader and given the fact that the Yanmar weighs at least double. You are going to feel that weight, but not to the extent that you are saying. Any HST can be made to whine when starting off from a stop, but the noise is much, much reduced when traveling.

On a typical little subcompact in high gear on a flat road, I can't imagine that you would be comfortable with as much speed as you are going to get after ten seconds with the pedal fully depressed.

BTW, I'm a fan of Yanmar technology. They tend to be very high quality machines. What you are experiencing just doesn't sound right. I don't want to be offensive to you or the dealer, but it sounds like they had the brakes locked.... It's common to lock the brakes down when parking the tractor. Could that have possibly have been the case? If not, I'd at least want to try a different 424. Is that possible?? I wouldn't want to go into this feeling not right. And I would NOT simply accept "assurances" from the Yanmar dealer. What you are describing is not right.

How about a more comparable size Kubota? Have you tried one of those? Like you say, the little BX231 may be similar HP, but it has half the engine displacement and really is a much smaller machine with a very limited loader. In general you want the largest tractor that you will fit your place. Larger ones are more comfortable, lift and carry more weight safely, don't have to work as hard, and are more stable.

Industrial tires are a good compromise for working in the dirt, turfs are so much gentler on grass & compact the soil less. I've used both as well as Ag tires. Frankly I liked the turfs, but I don't tend to spin tires anyway. And that is the key. I am more of a slow and careful worker.
Realize that in order for the industrial tires to grip, they have to penetrate the ground to some extent. If they do not penetrate, they are just a reduced surface area turf tire & will slip. In fact, both types of tires will slip. The industrials certainly do more digging down when they slip. But in doing so they gain the most traction.
If you are going to push small trees and rocks around to clear an area then get the industrials. If you are mostly carrying things over soil or grass that is a finished surface just to place whatever it is somewhere - like planting a tree next to a lawn - then get the turfs.
Certainly for what you want I'd avoid the traditional Ag tires, they tear up the ground too much when steering to turn.
Good Luck,
rScotty

 

[maciek8791]

I think you are just looking for some experienced opinions here, so let me offer the following:

How about a more comparable size Kubota? Have you tried one of those? Like you say, the little BX231 may be similar HP, but it has half the engine displacement and really is a much smaller machine with a very limited loader. In general you want the largest tractor that you will fit your place. Larger ones are more comfortable, lift and carry more weight safely, don't have to work as hard, and are more stable.


rScotty

Thank You so much for quick and interesting answer. You are true, I've been thinking about this and BX is too small and cannot be compared with 424. I can get a similiar size Kubota - b2 series with FL, but of course there is a price factor. It was allready very difficuily to convince my wife, she could not understand that this is an important investment for the next decades - she is just so much focused on the price we will have to pay now. So informing her now that we have to pay 2.000 more for the machine and 1.000 more for the mover because it's KUBOTA, is not an option.

I think I will take the risk and go for Yanmar. I am 99% sure that the brake was relased. The machine which I will get is brand new and it's not the same which used for the test-drive. There is no way that all others 424 owners do not have this impression, maybe I just do not "feel" this machine yet and this created the impression of low power.

best regards
Maciej

 

[dodge man]

Was the brake on with the Yanmar?

 

[maciek8791]

Was the brake on with the Yanmar?

I think not, but when You keep asking this question, I am starting to have some doubts

i Have one more question, there is one difference I noticed yanmar vs kubota : PTO control. If I remember well, on SA 424 You can choose from PTO back or PTO mid/back. So You cannot work only with PTO mid, always the rear has to go together, correct? Can this create any issue?

 

[Blue14]

Was the throttle powered up sufficiently?

 

[rScotty]

I think not, but when You keep asking this question, I am starting to have some doubts

i Have one more question, there is one difference I noticed yanmar vs kubota : PTO control. If I remember well, on SA 424 You can choose from PTO back or PTO mid/back. So You cannot work only with PTO mid, always the rear has to go together, correct? Can this create any issue?

The reason we keep asking the question is that all of us have made that same mistake at least once.... and in my case more times than I like to admit. And everytime we do so, we discover it by finding the exact same thing that you reported. It's like you were riding with me... Oops, what's happening here? My tractor goes, but it just seems labored and won't go properly - way too slow - and the HST is whining. OH! I left the brake on.... (again)

I think what happens is unless we have really stomped on the brakes to set the parking brake, the brakes start out being partly on and easily overpowered by the HST. Twenty feet later the brakes are heating and expanding and wearing all at the same time and I don't know past that point because by now that's about when I figure out, "I've done it again".

****! I wish the Kubota had aflashing red warning light and a blaring emergency horn like on our JD310 backhoe. When you try to make that mistake on the 310 it lets you know. The Kubota just puts an icon on the intellidash....

I don't blame you for going with the Yanmar. They really do tend to be good. You might check serial numbers though - just to make sure you get a new, different one from the demo.

On the PTO. It's no problem if they both run. They are made to go many thousands of hours. Unloaded is nothing to a PTO.
rScotty

 

[coyotef150]

I had the same issue when I drove one. I was dead set on a 424 and finally drove one and was disappointed. It seemed very underpowered and whiny. I thought maybe I just drove one with a weak pump or something. I looked at a used Yanmar and the guy also had a 424 he said the same thing . I think he said he was trying to get the dealer to try to make it better. I also drove a 324 a while before that and didn't notice it. Maybe the bigger tires of the 424 kills the power.

 

[rScotty]

I had the same issue when I drove one. I was dead set on a 424 and finally drove one and was disappointed. It seemed very underpowered and whiny. I thought maybe I just drove one with a weak pump or something. I looked at a used Yanmar and the guy also had a 424 he said the same thing . I think he said he was trying to get the dealer to try to make it better. I also drove a 324 a while before that and didn't notice it. Maybe the bigger tires of the 424 kills the power.

That's interesting. Maybe you are onto something, but wait... maybe it was the same 424? The OP didn't say where he was located....or maybe I missed it. I see you are in Pa. Now I'm curious to see if someone else has driven one. I wouldn't think the larger tires of the 424 would make that much difference....that doesn't make a noticible difference on other tractors. Other than tires the 324 and 424 seem similar.
This just doesn't make sense. I wonder if there is any chance it was the same one, or whatever... I'm going to go poke around on the Yanmar forum.
rScotty

 

[Mat4644]

Noticed the Yanmar 424 engine is HP rated at 3200 RPM. Kind of high. If the brake wasn't set were the engine RPMs high enough? A mid mount mower is fine if you keep up with mowing. You are always limited with how high these can be raised in any brand and if you use the tractor for tasks other than mowing a lot it seems they are always in the way. I had a drive over deck but found getting it on and off still a major PIA. 3pt quick hitch I liked better. Deere looks like nice mid mower connect is this also on Yanmar?. If the grass get a little high a good rear discharge 3pt finish mower performs much better and gives a greater range of heights. 1800 pounds is not too heavy for gardening. Do not load the tires for weight if using on lawns and gardens mainly.

As for engine RPMs my Kubota of similar size is HP rated at only 2500 RPMs. Less RPMs equals less wear and greater engine life.