worse than an Easter Egg Hunt

[wdwurker]

Having had my 4200 (4231TD) for less than a week, I feel pretty good about having found all the grease zerks... that is all but one! The book shows a U-Joint on the drive shaft... hmmm, that would be fine IF I COULD FIND THE DRIVE SHAFT!

I've been under it, behind it, inside it, but I can't find a drive shaft.

Any help for this newbie?

 

[murphy1244]

My ventrac has one underneath a cover held down by velcro behind the radiator. Very hard to get a gun on it. I have yet to get a gun on it.

 

[prs]

My machine is fairly new and I greased the TWO Zerks on the drive shaft yesterday first time. The drive shaft exits the rear center of the engine and courses the short distance to the hydraulic pump, the two U joints are within a few inches of each other. From the left side of the frame reach under the radiator to find the drive shaft. The Zerk fittings rotate with the universals and you have to get them pointing directly to the left. I did it by bumping the starter motor. Once you get them pointing toward you, they will still be pretty well hidden from sight, I did not even try to see them. Just go by feel. Now, grease gun flex hoses, being what they are, are slippery. So wipe the coupler and feed it under the hydraulic lines and contort your right hand to press the coupler onto the front Zerk and hold it. That leaves you one handed to pump the grease gun, the trigger grip type of gun is good for that. One pump will do, I could not resist two. The rear Zerk is under the debris cover at rear of radiator. You will again be going by feel as you will be reaching through a slit opening in the loosened vinyl cloth. The Zerk will be facing left just as you left the front one. Same procedure, right hand holds the coupler on the Zerk and left operates the gun.

I had more trouble, or at least as much, in finding and servicing the two Zerks at the front lift pivots.

prs

 

[wdwurker]

I had more trouble, or at least as much, in finding and servicing the two Zerks at the front lift pivots.

prs[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean. I had to go out and buy a couple of car ramps so I could put the front end up in the air just so I could find those two. I was beginning to think the picture was from a different series of power unit. That's why I knew there had to be a drive shaft somewhere, if the other picture was right, the picture of the drive shaft had to be also.
Who designed these machines, the "Lollypop Kids"?

 

[Wagtail]

Somewhat the opposite problem with my 4105... the Owner Manual said to grease two nipples on the front axle (pictures and everything). Even using a torch I couldn't find'em. Turns out that the manual hadn't been updated and they were no longer there.

Of course, when the Dealership bloke came out to do my 200hr service (part of the purchase deal) he pointed out two OTHER NIPPLES that were for the fwd/rev pedals that weren't in the manual either.

Oh, a 'torch' here is what others would refer to as a 'flashlight'.

 

[prs]

I appreciate the design. The alternative would be no Zerks at those locations and sealed U joints all of which would lead to failure sooner or later and if you think greasing the U joints is tedious; try replacing them. Part of the thing with "compact" equipment; tight places and limited space. They packed a lot in there. I also own a Honda Goldwing cycle and talk about difficult to service, and this is Honda. A "simple" air filter change is a two hour job if you are good at it and know the short cuts; but boy, oh boy! What a motorcycle!

prs

 

[wdwurker]

I also own a Honda Goldwing cycle and talk about difficult to service, and this is Honda. A "simple" air filter change is a two hour job if you are good at it and know the short cuts; but boy, oh boy! What a motorcycle!

prs[/QUOTE]

Nice... I too ride, and do all my own wrenching. I'm on a 2011 Victory Vision. I remember the first time I saw an Aspencade (sometime in the early 80's) and thinking,"Wow, what a nice bike, but think about what it would take just to find the engine"... Never say Never!

 

[Raw Dodge]

I appreciate the fittings too,I cannot find the zerks on my front hitch pivot points..not sure if my machine doesn't have them but I looked good..mines an 04 4231...I will likely add fittings one day..it's tight now,I spray no sqweek in there occasionally there's minimal play especially compared to my steiners. .one thing about the older machines with the diahatsu engines..we need to be very proactive with our maintenance,checking air filter ducting for leaks,keeping the cooling system in top shape, because heat kills.. as these engines are getting very scarce and hard to find not to mention there expensive. To my knowledge the 31TD isn't available anymore, when yours blows up,which isn't a matter of if.. but when,you'll have to repower with a 26.5NA diesel...which are still available. ..I occasionally see the 31 gas offered but there rare..all 3 engines are in the 4500-5500 dollar range new...

 

[murphy1244]

Well I greased one of the u joint fittings. Can't find the second one. Any Ideas?

 

[JackIL]

Murph,

The second Zerk is about 6 inches in front of or behind the Zerk you found. The rear Zerk is under the canvas debris shield behind the radiator.

From the current Operators Manual

On the 4500K, the drive shaft can be greased
through access points in the drive shaft cover.
On the 4500P, 4500Y, and 4500Z, the front fitting
can be reached under the radiator, from the right
side of the power unit, using a grease gun with a 13
or longer rubber hose. Rotate the drive shaft so the
grease fitting is pointed directly toward the right side
of the power unit. Insert the hose from the right side,
under the hydraulic couplers and radiator, directly in
line with the grease fitting. Push the hose onto the
grease fitting and hold in place while greasing. The
rear fitting can be reached in back of the radiator,
after pulling back the canvas debris barrier.

 

[prs]

In post #3 above I stated I reached the U joint fittings from the LEFT side, and I did. Leave it to me to be bassackward, or maybe its that I am a lefty. Rotating the shaft so that the Zerks are to the right (or to the left in my case) is the trick. Tractor with brake set, I used the start motor to bump it around to where I could feel the zerks.

This type of gun lets one guy/gal do the job:

Amazon.com: Lumax LX-1152 Black Heavy Duty Deluxe Pistol Grease Gun with 18" Flex Hose: Automotive

RawDodge, if your machine has them situated like mine; they are pointing a few degrees back and down as you reach in from under the front on each side. I had to remove the mower to reach them.

prs

 

[murphy1244]

I might need a longer hose. Thanks Jack again for all your help.

 

[wdwurker]

UPDATE...

I went by the dealer today and they had two 4200's torn down partially. I found MY drive shaft! It sits directly underneath the radiator. The shaft is only about 6-8 inches long, but there is no chance that I'll ever get these meat hooks in that tight spot.

Now someone needs to tell me if it's worth removing the radiator to grease the darn thing. I'm sure that it is running on assembly grease because there were zerks a lot easier to get to, that never got greased. Can't imagine removing the radiator to be too difficult, good excuse to renew the coolant.

Thanks everyone for all the helpful comments, that's why I love these forums. I could go two lifetimes and not run into as many experienced owners had it not been for this forum. Long Live the internet (and may it become less expensive to use, please)

 

[Raw Dodge]

Ventrac owners who performed three own maintenance & repairs should get familiar with removing the radiator. Just replacing the fan belt requires you to remove the radiator and the drive shaft. Since these machines pack a lot into a small space, it does require a few extra step sometimes to get to things, but its well worth it for all the advantages the machines have,as well as packing 30 plus hp and a hydraulic drive setup in the tiny front part of the machine.

 

[prs]

wdwurker,

Well, if your hands are a big as hams, I see two options. Go with Raw Dodge's remove the radiator route, or get yer skinny fisted woman to grease 'er fer Ya. ;-)

Raw Dodge? Have you discovered a better technique than my use of the starter motor to bump the drive shaft around to get the zerks pointing straight to the side?

prs

 

[Raw Dodge]

Honestly I don't have a lot of experience performing p.m. on the Ventracs.. It seems like most of my time spent is performing repairs,because I bought a machine that was owned by ignorant ppl who didn't fix problems as they arose. I've only had mine a few years and I've only put about 100 hrs on it..I greased the drive shaft when I had the engine out. . I'm very familiar with greasing the Steiner driveshafts which are almost identical but my machines are air cooled and access to the Steiner drive shaft is much easier, without a radiator and shroud in the way. Honestly I think greasing the drive shaft is not that important unless you regularly wash the machine especially when its hot. there is very little to no offset on the drive shaft so the shaft hardly even turn if at all. I'm sure I would find a way to grease it without removing the radiator that just seems entirely counterproductive just to grease those fittings..I've got a steiner drive shaft here with about 4000 hrs on it ,it's like new,been greased maybe 5x..it's tight and smooth, I only removed it to install a different drive shaft that would meet to the Kohler engine I powered it with.

 

[johara1]

I'm glad Steiner did away with the U joints and use direct drive. i doubt if i would grease them if they had them for fear of blowing the seals and causing a failure. Think about how many time you grease the drive line on your truck? Zip……. lol

 

[prs]

I was doing an oil change today and while waiting on the oil to drain I took another look at the zerks in the drive shaft. I do not think Harry Houdini could lube the front one from the RIGHT side of the tractor (left and right relative to seated driver's perspective). The manual is either WRONG or the Z model is different. With the oil change complete I went over to the LEFT side and with starter motor bumped the shaft around looking for best access to the front zerk. Again from seated driver's position, with the drive shaft rotated so that the zerk is at about 7:30 on the clock seems to be the easiest. I did it before with the zerk straight down. On the rear I could not get access with the zerks at that 7:30 position, so I bumped it again and it happened to stop with the zerk at 12:00, facing straight up, easy-peasy, just reach down through the open debris cover and there it is. Of course, mine did not need grease so soon. Actually, the factory motor oil still looked brand new; but its in a waste/return jug now.

prs

 

[John Joseph McVeigh]

Murph,

The second Zerk is about 6 inches in front of or behind the Zerk you found. The rear Zerk is under the canvas debris shield behind the radiator.

From the current Operators Manual

On the 4500K, the drive shaft can be greased
through access points in the drive shaft cover.
On the 4500P, 4500Y, and 4500Z, the front fitting
can be reached under the radiator, from the right
side of the power unit, using a grease gun with a 13
or longer rubber hose. Rotate the drive shaft so the
grease fitting is pointed directly toward the right side
of the power unit. Insert the hose from the right side,
under the hydraulic couplers and radiator, directly in
line with the grease fitting. Push the hose onto the
grease fitting and hold in place while greasing. The
rear fitting can be reached in back of the radiator,
after pulling back the canvas debris barrier.

Yes, the rear one becomes visible when you lift the canvas debris shield. The front one can be seen if it is oriented at 90 degrees (rightward) if you put your heard down near the hydraulic couplings for attachments and look a bit to the rear. It will be especially hard to see if the zerk is not clean. I suggest using prs's tips here. See also my comments here.