Wooden bridge span question

   / Wooden bridge span question #1  

RobA

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Feb 27, 2005
Messages
565
Location
Chester County, SE PA
Tractor
Kubota L5030 HST
I want to build a wooden bridge across a creek for people, ATV's and horses. I was going to use pressure treated 2x10's for the joists of the bridge which would be supported by concrete piers using Sonotubes. If I double up the 2x10's making the joists 3" thick how far do you think I could safely make the span and still support up to 2,500 pounds?

Is 16' too much? I want to avoid adding supports mid-way through the span since that would be in the creek.

(I've considered other alternatives but like the idea of wood both for looks and ease of construction)
 
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   / Wooden bridge span question #2  
I once built one with Cedars for beams. Three logs each about 15" on the butt end spanning a total of 20' with a center suport. I decked it with 2x's and as far as I know 4 wheelers are still crossing it today (15 yrs later). How far to the water? How deep? I am trying to get a feel for the severity of a complete collapse with a machine/ horse/ people on it. Regardless, I will do some math on a design for 3 beams each consisting of double 2x10's. I will post again soon.
 
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   / Wooden bridge span question #3  
Span engineering can be tricky and can make or break the engineer that designs them. How many joices, spaced how far apart? How long do you intend on using it? Who is going to be qualified to inspect it for safety? How long are you willing to accept liability for it's inspection, safety and use? A horse is a difficult engineering problem in itself. Since it's weight is concentrated in a small area at the hoof, you will need heavier decking, adding to the overall stress borne by the span. 16' sounds like an awfull lot for your 3X10 beams. How deep is this stream that you want to cross. How deep is the canyon that it has carved(how high will bridge deck be above water)? What is the peak and average water volume(depth and width of the water throughout the year). how do your local codes apply to bridging streams?

Would it be possible instead of a traditional bridge span, to lay large gauge culvert pipe across the stream bed and then fill in over the culvert with gravel and stone on the flanks? This is a modern variation of some of the oldest stone arch bridges on the planet. Constructed by the Romans, there are still some in existence today. IF the stream flow and local codes will allow it, it would probably be the safest long term low maintenance solution.

large stepping stones and a foot plank for the pedestrians, and the horses and ATV"S get to get wet fording the stream is also another option.

I personally would probably pass on the liability of a traditional span for the situation/use you described.

Good Luck
 
   / Wooden bridge span question #4  
Instead of making a full wooden structure how about using the deck off of a flatdeck semi-trailer?

If you bought a 20foot high boy flatdeck and cut the running gear and other garbage off the trailer and just use the deck and frame rails set on the Sonotubes you would have a super strong bridge deck. Old trailers can usually be bought for dirt cheap.
 
   / Wooden bridge span question #5  
RonMar said:
Span engineering can be tricky and can make or break the engineer that designs them. How many joices, spaced how far apart? How long do you intend on using it? Who is going to be qualified to inspect it for safety? How long are you willing to accept liability for it's inspection, safety and use? A horse is a difficult engineering problem in itself. Since it's weight is concentrated in a small area at the hoof, you will need heavier decking, adding to the overall stress borne by the span. 16' sounds like an awfull lot for your 3X10 beams. How deep is this stream that you want to cross. How deep is the canyon that it has carved(how high will bridge deck be above water)? What is the peak and average water volume(depth and width of the water throughout the year). how do your local codes apply to bridging streams?

Would it be possible instead of a traditional bridge span, to lay large gauge culvert pipe across the stream bed and then fill in over the culvert with gravel and stone on the flanks? This is a modern variation of some of the oldest stone arch bridges on the planet. Constructed by the Romans, there are still some in existence today. IF the stream flow and local codes will allow it, it would probably be the safest long term low maintenance solution.

large stepping stones and a foot plank for the pedestrians, and the horses and ATV"S get to get wet fording the stream is also another option.

I personally would probably pass on the liability of a traditional span for the situation/use you described.

Good Luck


Unless he is opening this up to the public, his liability is pretty limitted. I did run some math and I am not confident the even 3 beams of double 2x10's would be enough to satisfy me. At least no one suggested a house trailer frame yet!

This is what I looked at:

3 beams each constructed of 2 2x10's , each wieghing around 120 lbs
A wood deck 5' wide x 3" thick wieghing 700 lbs
2500 lbs additional load
Total load per beam = 1200 lbs

The beam deflection exceeded .5" with that load, I was looking for less than that based on an L/360 deflection.

I think you need to go a little heavier. As far as the small foot print of the horse goes, the concern there would be shear forces

I am around horses some so this isn't a blind guess.
A horse hoof is say around 12 sq in.
The horse and rider is probably in the 1500lb range together
The load per hoof is 375 lbs
The ground force is around 30 lbf/sq in.

I would not hesitate to build a wood deck, I would inspect it for rot every year, but it should be fine. I did not try any math with larger beams, but 2x12's seem a better choice. bolt them together with two bolts every 20-24" and it should act as a single beam. I am not a PE, but I am a mechanical engineer and I disagree with the attitude of most engineers that it is too risky to give advice.
 
   / Wooden bridge span question #6  
Just an option, I have a bridge for the same purpose, I used a section of an old trailer house frame, bolted 2" x 4"'s to it to nail the flooring to. Have used it for several years with no problem. I also nailed a row of landscape timbers along each edge to aviod slipping off with UTV's. ~~ grnspot110
 
   / Wooden bridge span question #7  
mboulais said:
Unless he is opening this up to the public, his liability is pretty limitted.

I was not even thinking of public use, there would be a whole lot more hoops to hop thru for that type use. I was thinking purely from a family safety standpoint... I am liable for my own familys safety, just as I am for any guests I invite into my home or property. Would I want to be responsible for a design error on my part injuring or killing one of my family, friends or animals? absolutely not! Would I want a missed or invisible detail when I do an inspection that leads to a falure, to injure or kill one of my family or animals a few years down the road when the structure gets old? NO! Then heaven forbid it should collapse when a tresspasser rides their horse or ATV across it and gets hurt when it fails... IF It is on my property and I build it, I am responsible for it for the rest of our lives! There is a lot on the line when you engineer a structure that defies gravity, holds people and also must be exposed to the elements. The greater number of variables you can remove, the better off you are. Gravel and stone over culvert pipes dosn't really defy gravity, and is fairly easy to inspect. Either the material is there or it isn't. It dosn't rot or decay appreciably(at least in a typical human lifespan) regardless of temperature or moisture content. It can be erroded by water flow, but again, those type damages are readilly apparent in the missing or displaced material.
 
   / Wooden bridge span question #8  
RonMar said:
I was not even thinking of public use, there would be a whole lot more hoops to hop thru for that type use. I was thinking purely from a family safety standpoint... I am liable for my own familys safety, just as I am for any guests I invite into my home or property. Would I want to be responsible for a design error on my part injuring or killing one of my family, friends or animals? absolutely not!

What about all the people that slap a half-*** deck off a second floor and host parties out there. Most peole don't lag decks into the house stucture properly but never think twice about risking the lives of loved ones on it. I think that most of the time these requests about bridges are met with a lot more resistance than they deserve. He is not trying to build a bridge strong enough for a tractor and log wagon or for a fully loaded fuel truck (yes, I ran into a guy trying to build a bridge for that on about a $500 budget). I think his requirements are reasonable and achievable by a homeowner with reasonable mechanical ability. I did ask about hieght / depth for the reason oof assesing risk. If the bridge is two feet above two feet of water the risk is a lot lower than 4' above 6' of water. If I didn't do anything that involved risk, I wouldn't do anything.
 
   / Wooden bridge span question
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Wow. Good responses/advice/thoughts. Thank you very much. Here are some more specifics:

- part of the reason for the wooden bridge in this location is aesthetics so I'm not considering culverts, flatbeds, etc for this crossing
- the bridge will not be the only crossing, I'm having a low water crossing installed in a few weeks (just got approval)
- bridge will not be open to the public and is not in the view of the public
- I was thinking 5' wide so it would be 5 joists (more weight) 16" on center and railings (even more weight)
- creek flow is gentle under normal conditions
- the bridge would be about 3 feet above the normal water level
- under normal conditions the water is only 4 feet wide at this location and only 12-18" deep
- high water in this location does not spill the creek banks, if the creek floods it spills its banks upstream and further downstream
- the reason for the longer span is due to the contour of the stream bank and to avoid higher water beating on the bridge supports
- I would use pressure treated for all wood components

By the way, don't worry, I'm not a lawyer. I respect everyone's opinions and advice here but would never hold anyone to it.
 
   / Wooden bridge span question #10  
RobA said:
Wow. Good responses/advice/thoughts. Thank you very much. Here are some more specifics:

- part of the reason for the wooden bridge in this location is aesthetics so I'm not considering culverts, flatbeds, etc for this crossing
- the bridge will not be the only crossing, I'm having a low water crossing installed in a few weeks (just got approval)
- bridge will not be open to the public and is not in the view of the public
- I was thinking 5' wide so it would be 5 joists (more weight) 16" on center and railings (even more weight)
- creek flow is gentle under normal conditions
- the bridge would be about 3 feet above the normal water level
- under normal conditions the water is only 4 feet wide at this location and only 12-18" deep
- high water in this location does not spill the creek banks, if the creek floods it spills its banks upstream and further downstream
- the reason for the longer span is due to the contour of the stream bank and to avoid higher water beating on the bridge supports
- I would use pressure treated for all wood components

By the way, don't worry, I'm not a lawyer. I respect everyone's opinions and advice here but would never hold anyone to it.

Is that 5 beams of double 2x10's? The added wieght of the beams and railngs should not be a problem and I suspect without doing the math that the deflection would more than meet L/360 and may be close to L/480. You should have a safe bridge to be proud of.
 

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