Why and what insurance should a logger on my property have?

[Tangoddess]

Hello and good afternoon,

I am considering hiring a logger to cut maybe 300-400 Pine trees on my property in Texas, near Houston.

It is a small acreage property, about 12 acres with about 300-400 mature Pine trees to cut. I thought there were more the first time I posted, but

I would have liked to wait longer, and maybe bid out the job and hire a forester, but it seems that the tract is not that big and the saw mills are not that close by.

Of course, if they had patience, then I would wait months or a year or two to find a forest consultant.

To add to that, my spouse and in laws are keen to cut the trees, don't ask me why, and do not pay attention to credentials, qualifications, equipment, insurance etc.

So, we have a logger who is ready to begin, and he has shown me evidence of a small amount of Commercial general liability, but no evidence of:

1) Auto liability
2) Workers Comp - This is NOT a mandatory requirement in Texas, i.e. the contractor does not have to have it by default.

Is this sufficient? Is there a need for higher Commercial general liability, and what is the need for auto liability or workers comp?

I do not want to complicate things if not needed, especially as the relatives are ready to begin and don't care about insurance etc.

What do you all feel, kind friends?

Thank you
TG

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I'd look into any erosion and sedimentation permits that may be needed. My grandfather just got in some hot water with the state over just that. Apparently he was responsible since it was his ground. I'm not familiar with the insurance requirements so I'm not any help there.

 

[Deere Dude]

Who will foot the bill if any lawsuit happens because of something going haywire, you or your friends. If it was my property I would not get pressured into something you aren't committed to.

I have some relatives that own 35 acres approx and quite a few pines are 24" in diameter and must be 50' tall. This acreage was thick with pines but there were a couple spots used for camping. For some reason one of them decided to cut down a bunch of pines around the campsites. When the loggers got done the whole camping area was trashed and couldn't be used for anything and I don't think any of them have tractors or money to hire a clean up crew. Be patient.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Couple years ago we had timber cut off the farm. It was surveyed by a certified forester. Since some of the timber was cut from adjoining properties of different land owners, a letter was sent to all of them by certified mail stating our intended purposes. Any objections to the survey needed to be addressed by a specific date via registered mail. I've got good neighbors and had no complaints. Don't know if this would pertain to you or not. Neighbors tend to get awful antsy when surveyors come out and when timber is cut close to their property boundaries. Might be best to give them a heads up if need be. My comments had nothing to do with insurance but thought that it might be of some value to you. Good luck.

 

[Rustyiron]

Your insurance man is the guy to ask this to.
Do you have any county/state foresters for some guidance?

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I don't know about your laws and regulations down there. Here in WA logging companies are covered under the contractor licensing laws; something to check on with your state. Remember; anything that happens on your land could come back on you if the contractor is not covered. Proof of insurance requirements is provided by the carrier and is called a "Certificate of Insurance". Make sure it includes you as an "Additional Insured". If a worker gets hurt they will go for payment to the state workers compensation insurance. Contractor does not pay their premium then payment could come flying back to you as the recipient of the work. If the Contractor/logger injuries someone not on his crew or damages your or someone elses property who do you want to pay for it? If he does not have liability/property damage/medical insurance and he is broke guess who becomes liable? Same thing relates to operations of vehicles on/coming/going from your site.

You need to make sure your contract (yes, the days of the hand shake are over) spells out and requires all permits, fees, and insurance requirements and adequate proof these requirements are in place before permitting onto your land. Make sure the contract clearly states how the property is to be left. Then get him to procure a "Payment and Performance Bond". The assures he completes the work as specified and has paid all his workers and suppliers. When he gets final payment you want to get a "Release of Mechanics Lien" per your states laws regarding such if it does. Your contractor is entitled to place a lien on your property until you have made final payment for the work.

A lot of this stuff is never done with no repercussions; but, "Murphy's Law quite often prevails and then it is too late. Legitimate contractors/loggers have no problem doing these requirements. Having it in place assures you are separating the "wheat from the chaff". I have been involved in contracting for 60+ years and stayed out of trouble both as as doer and reciever.

LOL, Ron

 

[RickB]

Proof of Workman's Comp Insurance would be at the top of my list and lack of it would be a deal breaker for me. A " small amount of general liability insurance" isn't comforting.

Your spouse and inlaws are uninformed and putting all your assets at risk.

 

[TnAndy]

Proof of Workman's Comp Insurance would be at the top of my list and lack of it would be a deal breaker for me. A " small amount of general liability insurance" isn't comforting.

Your spouse and inlaws are uninformed and putting all your assets at risk.

Mine too. Logging is right up there in the top hazard jobs list, and is reflected in workman's comp rates, and why a lot of small logger don't carry it.

Guy gets hurt/killed on your property, and you can bet you will be in the eventual lawsuit. I wouldn't let one step foot on my place without proof of it.

 

[fried1765]

Mine too. Logging is right up there in the top hazard jobs list, and is reflected in workman's comp rates, and why a lot of small logger don't carry it.

Guy gets hurt/killed on your property, and you can bet you will be in the eventual lawsuit. I wouldn't let one step foot on my place without proof of it.

DITTO !!!!!

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Proof of Workman's Comp Insurance would be at the top of my list and lack of it would be a deal breaker for me. A " small amount of general liability insurance" isn't comforting.

Agreed. Sounds like he has a minimal policy just so he can say he's insured. That kind of insurance is dirt cheap. 30 years ago I had a million dollar policy and all I was doing was installing car phones. It cost me peanuts.

Your spouse and inlaws are uninformed and putting all your assets at risk.

Yep.

Your insurance man is the guy to ask this to.
Do you have any county/state foresters for some guidance?

This is really good advice.

Guy gets hurt/killed on your property, and you can bet you will be in the eventual lawsuit.

And this is why. If he acts like a complete idiot and drops a tree on his head, you can expect to be sued. It doesn't have to make sense to you. It does to the lawyers.

I have a friend who is trying to settle her brother's estate, and it's taking years, because somebody is suing somebody. The squatters in one of his houses had a dog, and that dog bit someone, and the estate is being included in the lawsuit. Why? How could the owner of the property possibly be liable for the actions of somebody who had no right to be on his property?

Doesn't matter. It's still tied up in court. Because he was insured, the legal bills are coming out of the insurance company's pockets, not the estate.