Which is best way to clear land?

[Billc]

I am about to clear 20 acres. The land is a little rolly, nothing bad. I have some 12 yr old pines that I'll cut off, lots of little hard woods, and some big hardwood. The land used to be farm land 30 years ago. The pines were cut off about 12 years ago. Nothings been done to it since. I'm turing it into pasture.

What is the best way to clear the trees? The big hardwoods I'll leave standing. The pines I'll cut and sell. That leaves lots of 12 year old hardwoods...mainly Sweetgums. I've used my tractor to try and clear but lots of the hard woods spring back up, they're very hard to dig out. That leaves me with two choices: First, a track loader. Second, a track hoe. Which is best?

I've used and watched track loaders work a lot. That seems to be the common machine of distruction. I've watched a track hoe work once and it was incredible. It had a thumb on the arm. The operator would get a hold of a tree...some really big trees...and pull them out of the ground root and all. Then he'd shake the trees to get the dirt off the root ball. Then stack the trees in a pile or onto a logging trailer. Amazing to watch.

Last year we cleared 8 acres using a track loader. He did a great job, but was wondering if the track hoe will do a better job. Plus a the track hoe can easily dig large holes to burry the stumps in.

Once the trees are cleared I'll get a dozer to grade.

Any thoughts or advice?

Bill Cook

 

[RobS]

Bill, I'm looking at doing some clearing myself, though a much smaller scale than yours. I was talking to a friend about it the other day. This guy has a Deere 450 dozer and an older industrial tractor with a loader. He says the best machine for the task is the trackhoe. Like you said, it can pull the trees up and shake the dirt off the ball. The operator can push a tree down from a high position with lots of leverage. With his dozer, he can only push a couple of feet up on the trunk and doesn't get the leverage. He'll also use his tractor and loader by pushing up high, but he's traction limited. He also said that whatever I do, don't cut the trees down. That leaves no choice but to dig the stumps out with a hoe which takes a lot longer than pushing them over.

I'm anxious to hear other comments on this same topic /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

It depends a lot on how big the trees are, and how densely packed.

I cleared a 2 acre area that had over 100 4" to 6" diameter ash trees (measured at chest height), mixed in with dense brush. I brush hogged everything I could, then cut the trees about 3' to 4' high with a chain saw, and dragged out everything but the stumps. The next time I had a dozer on the premises I had the operator push the stumps in a pile. It only took him about an hour. I pulled all the stumps out and cleaned up the ground with a box blade and landscape rake.

 

[cowboydoc]

Bill,
If you're going to have a dozer come in anyway I would just get one to do the trees too. I had a guy come in on my place and in two days he had the whole thing cleared, brush and trees piled, and the land smoothed out and ready to plant. He pushed the trees out, knocked the dirt off as they slid to the piles and pushed everything up and ready to burn. He would have burned the piles to but I wanted to get some firewood and fenceposts out of it before it was burned.

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Bill,

I selectively cleared about 2 acres with a D7 Cat and rippers. Maples and Alders to 36" worked fine. Some of the larger stumps where tough even for the D7.
Al

 

[scruffy]

Of course (tongue in cheek here) You could check with the forest service for any planned burns, they always have a tendancy to go out of control! ;o) Not serious. I think they have a hidden rule to only hire arsonist for their planned burn control program. (again tongue in cheek!)

 

[Anonymous Poster]

From my experience, most "professional" operators take a dim view of you wanting to leave ANYTHING on the property, and it is easy to damage your remaining trees. I've posted about this before on other "land clearing" threads. If the guy doesn't seem like he wants to listen to anything, forget him. For this reason, and depending on how many trees you are leaving etc, a track hoe is much cleaner as the trees can be removed without damaging the others, and without driving over the roots of the remaining trees. For COMPLETELY clearing the property nothing beats a D11 with a clearing rake! They just make passes like we mow our grass!

If you're burning, then a track loader is more efficient to have on hand to run the stumps to the burning pile(s) while the trackhoe pushes them over. The trackhoe can make a nice Igloo of stumps that will burn even in a downpour. You can also push them over or pull them out and then cut the stumps off with the tree in the air a couple feet, saves backs and saw chains. For big jobs those tree processors are coming into the scene, they grab the tree, twist it horizontal cut off the stump and delimb it and it's computer cuts it into the right size log! That is very impressive to watch.

There are good operators out there that can clear with anything, it can take some time to find one. For most of my stump digging (I bought 5 acres with flush cut stumps) I rented a trackhoe. More fun then being 10 years old (or 45) at Disneyland! I don't know if that takes longer or not, I didn't care it was such a thrill (after 15 years of teensy-hoe) to just grab stumps and yank them out, turn sideways and toss them.

All the work I did was no where near anything important so I felt comfortable. If you decide to rent one, and you already have a backhoe on a Kubota JD NH etc, keep in mind most of the big ones use a different digging method with the two levers. I was Joe Goofball for at least a good hour and never was anywhere near efficient. Some of the newer ones, especially Japanese ones (actually the Cats are Japanese too) Kobelco, Komatsu etc have a switch to alter the controls to the different patterns. Why there is more then one pattern clogs my brain. Beta/VHS? who knows.

A trackhoe, like our little Kubotas, can rake gently and clean the ground up, floating on the surface, making nice brush piles to move later. A guy with a dozer or trackloader can't "feel" or see what he is doing until it's too late, again this applies to trees you are leaving. I don't know how many times I've seen this done and the trees are damaged and have to come down at great expense later after the house is built and the tree now has to come down a chunk at a time.

I take it you are not going to burn? Burying stumps is great if you need the fill dirt and don't mind if it settles later, it surprising though how they can come back to bite you. They're great for ant farms so the ants can have a good home while they're looking for your fence posts!

I know of one housing development where they did that, somebody has a cable or something put in, the backhoe comes up sometimes with a huge chunk of the yard, sidewalk, etc from the stump it is bringing to the surface.

Actually I've heard if you put them down a ways there isn't enough oxygen for them to rot so you don't have the bug or settling problem?

del

 

[Billc]

Thanks for the info.

RobS, I don't want to cut the trees and leave stumps. Much harder to get them out of the ground. Plus, when you leave pine stumps the tap root will eventually rot away. It leaves a 2" to 3" inch hole that's 1 to 2 feet deep. It will sure enough kill a horse. We have those types of holes all over the property from when this place was clear cut 12 yrs ago. My wife and I rode our property line yesterday on the horses, even though we've spent 2 years filling in holes we saw 6 or 7 more yesterday.

Del, we will burn off the brush. I've found roots don't burn so well. Much easier to dig a hole and cover them up. The guy I had out last year said if you bury them you can dig them up a 100 years later and they will look just the same.

I'll start calling today to get some guys out to give me some quotes.

Oh, Rich, thanks for your thread on arenas. We'll be building a 10 stall barn end of this year or first of next. I want to build an round pen with solid walls, and an arena. Why? 'Cause my wife said I wanted to, that's why.

Thanks for the info, y'all.

Bill Cook

 

[cowboydoc]

Bill,
When you get ready let me know and I've got alot of ideas for round pens too if you need them.

 

[Jag]

BillC, I feel the exact same way because my wife said so.... The timing is the same unless something comes up... Need to clear the place, eight to ten stall barn, arena and round pen.

Cowboydoc, just start the thread on round pens cause I need to know.... Oh thanks for all the good posts.