Which is best for diesel tractor engines - wet liner vs. dry liner vs. non linered

[sd455dan]

Now I'm aware that once rebuild time comes, there are inherent advantages to replacing liners, vs. taking the block in to be machined.
Since all three types are routinely used - the differences may be minor...
Anyone have opinions on the wet verses dry liner engines- cooling, longevity, # of problems observed with each style...
Any and all opinions or experiences, reasons to like or avoid one design over the other are welcome...

 

[Tx Jim]

Since cylinder cavitation has become so prominent I think wet liners are better because the engine can be repaired with out the need to remove engine. I bought a Ford tractor that has a "crate motor"due to cavitation. I was told in sales meeting that wet sleeved engines dissipated heat better than dry sleeved engines.

 

[sd455dan]

Since cylinder cavitation has become so prominent I think wet liners are better because the engine can be repaired with out the need to remove engine. I bought a Ford tractor that has a "crate motor"due to cavitation. I was told in sales meeting that wet sleeved engines dissipated heat better than dry sleeved engines.

What year and model of Ford , my (old) 3000 has no sleeves and not sure if this the best description but is a( parent metal)-non sleeved engine, which is another reason I asked the question, aren't non sleeved engines more immune to the water cavitation (hammering) because there is no liner to (ring).. or is this wrong

 

[Tx Jim]

My Ford is a 6700 with no sleeves. All engines with/without sleeves can have problems with cavitation but diesels are worse. It's important to use coolant condition.

 

[art]

For what ford calls cavitation we called poor casting 40 years ago!!! Even gas engines would have cavitation as well for that thought! Dry sleeves can also give you trouble but not the same, they can get loose and break hurting the hole they are in so it is not true and won't hold the original sleeve size which can be cleaned up and an oversized sleeve can be used. Wet sleeves are the fastest to renew an engine and take no special tools to remove and can be done without crank removal.
Cavitation is known on wet sleeves and a more recent term since the seventies when first discovered in big truck diesel engines even before we first had the problem with tractor engines. With the thinness of the cylinder walls to move the heat faster they do walk or move as the pistons go up and down which you won't see with a parent bore block or even with a dry sleeve do to the thickness. This movement causes the anti-freeze when older or water to move quickly in and out against the sleeve wall and will allow air pockets to attach to the wall. These air pockets are much the same as you might see under a kitchen tap with hard water. When attached to the wall they will stay there until the engine changes temperature or is shut down. They actually look like a little weld mark from a stick welder and once the roughness is started they expand quite quickly although I've only seen the damage not the making of it. Cavitation that I've seen is always on the inside of the engine towards the cams not to the outside as it must be hot to have it happen. I've seen many ways to fix by different repair shops as far as wet sleeves! Jerry rigging is often done by coating over with material that looks like JB weld and reinstalled at 180 degrees from original location reusing everything except the head and pan gasket I think! We call that a western tune-up, no offense!

 

[sd455dan]

Anyone have a coolant conditioner they like for the antifreeze, last time I changed antifreeze I just bought the Prestone (safe for all metals) type...

I know my Cummins equipped Dodge says to use HOAT( hybrid organic additive technology) also have heard people call the A= additive in HOAT- =acid?? I checked and they recommend that HOAT for the gas engine equipped vehicles to
I have not added any conditioner to the Ford 3000, the engine is going on 45 years without a rebuild and as far as I know maybe, 4 antifreeze change out /flushes...

ART it sounds like you see no real problem with the dry sleeve method, and it also sounds as if the crankshaft must be removed to renew a sleeve?? I ask because , I may eventually have to replace one on the Rhino tractor..
Thanks for the information

 

[Tx Jim]

I have not added any conditioner to the Ford 3000, the engine is going on 45 years without a rebuild and as far as I know maybe, 4 antifreeze change out /flushes..Thanks for the information

What you describe worked years back but in today's world you're taking a big risk not changing antifreeze every 4-5 years and either using coolant condition or checking PH of coolant with a test kit. My neighbor has a JD 5603 that I think is less than 5 years old with a leaking liner

 

[sd455dan]

I'm more than willing to add a conditioner to the Rhino and Ford- but what have people been using that has a good reputation, I changed the Fords out when I had to replace the inline block heater and on the Rhino when I had the front engine cover off and changed its water pump (both in the last 8 months)... I should have been clearer about my antifreeze changes..

And if there is no additive that has a reputation for minimizing cavitation ... well I,ll just run them with the (new ) Prestone that's in them but I see no reason to waste, or throw out nearly new antifreeze, I am to cheap for that.

 

[Tx Jim]

I'm not promoting JD but this their coolant and I know how to look the info up.. Their coolant conditioner is this: TY16004 ENGINE COOLANT CONDITIONER ADD 4.85 USD

Service life of 6 years / 6,000 hours
Fully formulated for heavy-duty cooling systems
Reduces downtime and lowers operating costs
Protects against corrosion and cavitation
Thermally stable
Mix on-site
Contains bittering agent
Recommended for heavy- and light-duty diesel, natural gas, and gasoline engines

 

[RickB]

I'd be pretty confident in any coolant supplement providing DCA/SCA protection and marketed by any major diesel engine manufacturer or manufacturer of heavy duty antifreeze. New Holland, Deere and Fleetguard come immediately to mind.