I see your point,and its a good one.Sometimes it depends on how you are paying for something,finaceing it or cash,I mean if you are saving your money to pat cash for something,than the difference in the price takes on a whole new meaning,i.e.,I can buy this now or I'll save another year and try to get that next year,seems to me like it was about $ 4,000 dollars differents in what I paid for a 254 nortrac and the comporable big two or three,and they were a smaller body size,no loader,at least I think thats about right.Mine doesn't have a loader either,john deere must have a good price going on the loader packages.But yeah I believe I would look real hard at that j.d. before buying the 30 h.p. nortrac,but I'd probably not be buying the 30 h.p nortrac,they had them last fall when I bought my 25 h.p.,and the loader for mine ,if I got one would cost another 3,000 dollars,so I bet you they won't be selling many 30 h.p. with loaders on them either.Now as far as those crate tractors,I know there the same tractor as mine and all that,but I actualy drove mine part ways home from the store I bought it at,just up on my hill,and I won't even,anymore,buy a small thing,[lawnmower,etc.],unless its put together.To much agravation for me,but to some I guess its an adventure,I've had all the adventures I want. RICHARD GAUTHIER