Where Did I Go To School?

thcri · May 15, 2004

I was out pricing some deck boards today at one of the local discount places. I asked for pricing on deck board pressure treated 1-1/4 x 6 by 8 feet long. After some checking the clerk said they don't have any deck board by that size. And it is not available and he's never heard of it. Ok, I'm getting old but not that old. I looked up on the wall and said what is that? And his comment was, that is deck board but it only comes in 5/4" and he continued and said, he never heard of 1-1/4".

So when I check out his competitor should I ask for 5/4" or 1-1/4??

Murph

frank_f15 · May 15, 2004

That is really sad /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif mabey when u go to the competitor u should ask for deck board of 80/64" that will really fry their brains. reminds me of the time i went to buy a yard stick for my wife. the kid told me i could only get a 4 ft. yard stick. i told him there is no such thing as a 4 ft yard , he said sure thereis we have them right here, i always thought a yard was 3 ft. must be i am getting old also. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Bird · May 15, 2004

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gifThat's what computers do for us, Murph. If he has it entered as "5/4", the computer won't recognize 1 1/4 or 1.25 and if it ain't in the computer, many of these kids have no idea how to calculate it in their head. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

How many times have you had a young cashier try to make change if his computer doesn't tell him how much change to give you?

Cliff_Johns · May 15, 2004

( I asked for pricing on deck board pressure treated 1-1/4 x 6 by 8 feet long. Murph )

Not to be contrary, but 5/4 wood isn't 1-1/4. If I was working there, I would have asked if you meant 5/4, because I suspect he's right -- they probably don't sell deck board that's inch and a quarter thick. That's why you say five quarter instead of inch and a quarter.

I admit that he may not have known that 5 fourths is the same as 1 and one fourth, but when measuring wood, the two really aren't equal.

Cliff

Cliff_Johns · May 15, 2004

( So when I check out his competitor should I ask for 5/4" or 1-1/4??
Murph )

So what I forgot to say in the last post was, ask for five quarter. Asking for inch and a quarted would be wrong. By the way, five quarter wood is only an inch think -- no quarters.

Cliff

GerardC · May 16, 2004

( /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gifThat's what computers do for us, Murph. If he has it entered as "5/4", the computer won't recognize 1 1/4 or 1.25 and if it ain't in the computer, many of these kids have no idea how to calculate it in their head. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

How many times have you had a young cashier try to make change if his computer doesn't tell him how much change to give you? )

It's sickening isn't it! G

johnday · May 16, 2004

Ah, I see your problem. By reading your bio I see your a CEO. All the CEO's I've met are really injunears at heart! LOL.
When lumber is milled, it is measured in nominal sizes. In other words a 2X4 actually is 2X4. When dried it shrinks down to, ready for this? 11/2X31/2. This works for the width until you get up to 8by lumber. At that that point you'll find that say a 2X8 will actually be 11/2X71/4.
The deck boards your talking about,5/4, usually measure 1" to 11/8" thick.
Don't blame it on the kid at the counter, I've hired "experienced", help that couldn't figure that one either. Sounds like you were shopping at one of the big box stores. At the wages that kid probably makes, why train him. He'll be back at Taco Bell next week anyway.
BTW, nothing personal about you being a Ceo, besides a builder I'm also a Union Committee"person". Good luck with your deck. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

OkeeDon · May 16, 2004

When lumber is milled, it is measured in nominal sizes. In other words a 2X4 actually is 2X4. When dried it shrinks down to, ready for this? 11/2X31/2. 

You got the ideas and the processes right, but not exactly the amount it shrinks.

It's all rough cut to the nominal size; in other words, a 2 x 4 is really 2" x 4", and a 1 x 6 is really 1" x 6". But, sawmills vary, and rough cut is really just that -- it's pretty rough, not all exactly the same size, and needs to be dressed to make it uniform. What happens next depends on whether it's still "green" (moisture content above 19%), or "dry" (moisture content about 15%, but no more than 19%).

If it's dry, it's dressed by milling and sanding down to the dressed size. If it's green, it's dressed down to a size slightly more than the dressed size. Then, as you say, it's allowed to shrink to the dressed size.

For example, a 1 x (1 by) is rough cut to 1" thick. If it's already been seasoned and is dry, it's milled to 3/4" thick. If it's still green, it's milled to, for example, 25/32" (that's 1/32" more than the dressed size of 3/4"), and allowed to shrink to the 3/4" size dressed size. The amount left to shrink varies according to the thickness of the lumber, as can be seen in the last column below.

Hank · May 16, 2004

And there is a greed factor at work, too. In the early 1900's and past, 4/4" lumber used to dress out at 13/16", and other thickenesses were also thicker in the finished state, because they were cut a bit thicker in the rough state.

When I worked custom millwork from 1973 to 1995, our hardwoods were bought rough, and with care I could finish the 4/4" out at 13/16". I made most of my hardwood cabinet doors and frames that way, because it gave extra strength to the mortise and tenon joints.

The mill stock we bought (white pine, surfaced two sides) came surfaced as follows:

4/4" - 3/4"
5/4" - 1 1/8"+
6/4" - 1 3/8"+
8/4" - 1 13/16"

The slight extra thickness (the "+") was for sanding, because a screen door, shutter, or storm sash was supposed to finish at 1 1/8", a sash or interior door at 1 3/8", and an exterior door at 1 3/4".

I suspect the greed factor continues to erode the finished thicknesses.

johnday · May 16, 2004

Don, Thats correct, it looks like I forgot the dressing out.
However, where did you get the table you show? Up north here anything over a 2X6 nominal loses 3/4" in width. Like an 8 would 7 1/4", a 10 is 9 1/4, and a 12 is 11 1/4". Then you get into the LVL's, Paralams,and other manmade lumber that has the same width sizes, but the thiskness varies.. In other words, they are usually 1 3/4" thick so when you use them in headers and such, and double this thickness, you windup with 3 1/2" which is the same size as a 2X4. The plywood or OSB sandwiched between a 2by for a header, really is only there for spacing. The manmade materials, whether we like it or not, are actually stronger than the Godmade versions.
Guess I'm getting off track a little, but building is kind of a passion for me. I really like to frame buildings, it's not work to me in most cases. The satisfaction factor is still there. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif