What battery for 30hp diesel?

[alchemysa]

The diesel is a 'brand new' 1992 Perkins 3 cylinder 29 hp engine. Even though its 20 years old its never been used and is still on the original packing skid. As you'd expect it has very high compression.

The Perkins brochure recommended a 70 aH battery. The Battery catalog at the auto store does not list batteries in 'Amp hours', nor does it have any listing for this particular engine, but it did recommended a 700 cca battery for an identical sized Volvo motor. (Actually its the same motor, just rebranded.) The biggest battery they had in stock was a 650 AH so I got that thinking it was close enough. Big mistake, it can barely turn it over. But now I don't think a 700aH battery will be big enough either.

So rather than make another mistake, I figured I'd ask you guys with similar sized diesels in your tractors what size batteries you are using. Everything over here seems to be quoted in cca's (cold cranking amps) but there seems to be no direct conversion from cca's to Amp hours so although I roughly understand the terminology I'm still confused about what to get. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[RickB]

If an identical engine calls for 700 CCA and 650 won't roll yours over, I'd suspect your 20 year old engine has internal friction issues that may or may not heal themselves with use. In the US, group 31 batteries with 950-1000 CCA are sold by the millions for trucks and farm vehicles. They are (relatively speaking) cheap and easy to find. I'd consider one of them until your engine loosens up a little.

 

[alchemysa]

If an identical engine calls for 700 CCA and 650 won't roll yours over, I'd suspect your 20 year old engine has internal friction issues that may or may not heal themselves with use. In the US, group 31 batteries with 950-1000 CCA are sold by the millions for trucks and farm vehicles. They are (relatively speaking) cheap and easy to find. I'd consider one of them until your engine loosens up a little.

It turns over and fires but it really struggles. If it doesnt fire straight away its virtually dead. For the first start-up I made sure the engine was fully lubricated including putting oil in the cylinders and turned it over a half dozen times by hand so I'm pretty sure theres no problem with the engine or the starter.

 

[RickB]

It turns over and fires but it really struggles. If it doesnt fire straight away its virtually dead. For the first start-up I made sure the engine was fully lubricated including putting oil in the cylinders and turned it over a half dozen times by hand so I'm pretty sure theres no problem with the engine or the starter.

650 CCA is common and reliable in similar sized diesels, which answers your original question.
Regardless, if 650 CCA won't roll it over fast enough to start reliably, more is needed for whatever reason.

 

[JasG]

It is possible sitting for 20 years that connections, possibly even the contacts inside the starter solenoid have corrosion and is limiting current.

 

[90cummins]

starter and all connections next time you start it, if they warm to the touch you have a poor connection.

90cummins

 

[banjodunn]

G'day Alchemysa a 650cca should swing it over no prob I use a ford falcon battery on our ford 3000 and it is rated at 520 cca and starts it no probs, Ihave also used the same battery in our 175 massey at work and no probs there, I think you may want to checkthe elec side of it out as JasG said.

By the way where abouts in SA are you I'm in Ararat in Vic.


Jon

 

[Xfaxman]

Put a digital voltmeter on the starter case and the stud (not the wire itself) where the wire from the solenoid attaches, to see how much voltage is getting there.

 

[alchemysa]

Put a digital voltmeter on the starter case and the stud (not the wire itself) where the wire from the solenoid attaches, to see how much voltage is getting there.

Hmmm, this not looking good. Not a lot of replies so far but the general advice seems to be that 650cca should be sufficient. Perhaps I do have an electrical problem, or the new battery is dodgy. (I'll put it in my 4WD and see how it goes.) I've gone to some effort to ensure I have good earth and good contact at the starter but perhaps its still not good enough. I've got 12v at various test points but that doesn't mean I'm getting all the boot I need.

 

[alchemysa]

G'day Alchemysa a 650cca should swing it over no prob I use a ford falcon battery on our ford 3000 and it is rated at 520 cca and starts it no probs, Ihave also used the same battery in our 175 massey at work and no probs there, I think you may want to checkthe elec side of it out as JasG said.

By the way where abouts in SA are you I'm in Ararat in Vic.


Jon

Jon. I'm in the Adelaide Hills and also have a beach shack near Robe. Thats a nice Charger you have there. Its funny, I was only thinking the other days that the two best cars I've ever owned were a Valiant wagon of the same vintage, and my current 2001 Magna wagon with 350,000ks on the clock. Both built in Adelaide, but about 40 years apart.

 

[Xfaxman]

Hmmm, this not looking good. Not a lot of replies so far but the general advice seems to be that 650cca should be sufficient. Perhaps I do have an electrical problem, or the new battery is dodgy. (I'll put it in my 4WD and see how it goes.) I've gone to some effort to ensure I have good earth and good contact at the starter but perhaps its still not good enough. I've got 12v at various test points but that doesn't mean I'm getting all the boot I need.

The voltage at the starter will let you know what the problem is. Measure the voltage of the battery with the probes on the terminals, not the cable clamps. 12.6 is full charge. The voltage should be be the same both places while cranking.

This video shows what I mean. Starter Voltage Drop - YouTube

 

[TedLaRue]

The starter gets power through a solenoid relay (electrically controlled switch). I don't know your machine. Sometimes these solenoids are external devices, with a heavy gauge wire from the battery to the solenoid, and another one from the solenoid to the starter, and also at least one or maybe two small gauge wires attached to the solenoid. And sometimes they are built into the starter unit. I think it is safe to say that newer machines have them built into the starter unit (the starter motor and bendix).

Xfaxman's advice to check the voltage at the main starter terminal when you are cranking is an excellent idea. Building on that, if the voltage there is ok, then there are two possibilities: (1) if your solenoid is not part of the starter unit, then your starter motor may have problems (2) if the solenoid is part of the starter motor unit, then the contacts inside the solenoid may be oxidized as JasG suggested in an earlier post.

 

[CliffordK]

You don't need AH, unless you're planning to crank the engine over for an hour or so before it starts.

CCA is probably somewhat more representative of the battery.

Odyssey Batteries makes some excellent, albeit a little expensive batteries. If their PC2150 battery won't crank it over, then you have issues.

Anyway, it doesn't hurt to try connecting two "good" batteries in parallel (12V, plus to plus, neg to neg).

How big is your battery cable? Perhaps it is undersized for your power draw. I also assume your battery is "new". Does the battery hold at least 12.6V overnight?

Here is a pretty simple load based Battery Tester from HF.

 

[alchemysa]

The starter gets power through a solenoid relay (electrically controlled switch). I don't know your machine. Sometimes these solenoids are external devices, with a heavy gauge wire from the battery to the solenoid

Solenoid is separate. Battery is brand new and cranks my 4WD over just fine so it should be OK. When I touch power directly to the starter it spins OK so I hope thats OK too. So hopefully the problem is just my cables. I'm just using 2 pairs of quite heavy jumper leads at the moment. I doubled them up to run parallel, so I had 2 clamps to earths and 2 clamps to a flat bar bolted to the solenoid terminal, plus they were separately clamped to large bolt on battery terminals. I thought this would give me sufficient contact to happily turn over this quite small engine for a 'bench test' but perhaps not. I'll have to get some proper bolt on cables. It looks like my problem is stupidly self inflicted. My original question of whether the battery is big enough seems to have been answered. Thanks gentlemen.

The pic attached is from the manual. Its actually a marine engine.

 

[Xfaxman]

Solenoid is separate. Battery is brand new and cranks my 4WD over just fine so it should be OK. When I touch power directly to the starter it spins OK so I hope thats OK too. So hopefully the problem is just my cables. I'm just using 2 pairs of quite heavy jumper leads at the moment. I doubled them up to run parallel, so I had 2 clamps to earths and 2 clamps to a flat bar bolted to the solenoid terminal, plus they were separately clamped to large bolt on battery terminals. I thought this would give me sufficient contact to happily turn over this quite small engine for a 'bench test' but perhaps not. I'll have to get some proper bolt on cables. It looks like my problem is stupidly self inflicted. My original question of whether the battery is big enough seems to have been answered. Thanks gentlemen.

The pic attached is from the manual. Its actually a marine engine.

Yep, the clamps are the problem. I would expect 3-400 amp initial draw and no start cranking draw of 200-275 amps, maybe more on that new old diesel. Hard to get that much current through the small contact area of jumper cable clamps.

Are you going to put this engine in your Honda Farm Bike? :laughing::laughing:

 

[alchemysa]

Are you going to put this engine in your [/FONT][/COLOR]Honda Farm Bike? :laughing::laughing:

No but if I can sell the engine for a good price I might be sitting on a fancier pair of wheels in the future