Welding - Stick Vs Gasless MIG?

[alchemysa]

I'm pretty fed up with of my little $90 stick welder and I'm thinking of getting a Gas/Gasless MIG. I've never used MIG but I'm guessing I'll be using the cored gasless wire most of the time. So I'm wondering whats the difference in ease and quality of gasless MIG compared to ordinary stick welding. Do you still have to chip the slag off a gasless mig weld? If gasless mig is not all that much easier than stick welding then its probably not worth me moving up.

Thanks for any comments.

 

[irvingj]

I'm REALLY new to welding, but recently took a class (yeah, big deal, but I know more now than I did...). There are some real experts on TBN who will add their expertise soon, I'm sure.

In my limited experience, the flux-core wire feed welders (gasless MIG) are pretty convenient, but they splatter a LOT, making a weld that's not very good looking (but can be chipped off & ground down). The gas-fed wire feeds (true MIGs) made a much smoother weld, and to me just seemed to be easier to get a good weld with. On both machines, experimentation with power & wire feed speed are really necessary- experiment first.

During our class we also used stick welders; some were very troublesome to get & hold an arc, which made for poor welds, but there were 2 machines that seemed to work MUCH better, on the same material-- so I guess not all stick welders are created equal-- I'm also guessing that $$ pretty well equals quality here.

Well-- that's my half-cent worth; let's wait for the pros to chime in.

 

[Jeepnford]

I'd say it depends on what most of your usage will be. If you're welding mostly thicker steel,stick would be fine. If you want the ability to weld down to sheet metal I think a 220 V MIG with infinite controls would be good. Stick is a little more tolerant of dirty(to a point)steel. Gasless MIG requires about the same amount of cleanup as stick if not more. Personally, the only time I would use flux cored wire would be welding outdoors. Whatever you decide buy a quality machine,DC + and - for stick. Also with MIG,if you want you can weld aluminum.

 

[mbohuntr]

I don't make a living at it anymore, but IMHO, the last poster pretty much said it. you can't judge stick welding using a $90 machine. Just as a $90 mig will give you similar results. Stick welders like DC better than AC, you get a much more stable arc, and scratch starting is much easier. Find a buddy with a nice machine and try it.... Mig is easier to learn, but can be tough on light sheet metal, and rusty metal. Each has it's areas. For the beginner/homeowner, you might be building a 3/8" square tube frame one day but trying to weld a cracked deck on your lawnmower the next. MIG does not like thick or rusty metal. Yes, I've welded everything from 24 guage to 1-1/4 plate with mig, but that wasn't a tractor supply machine either. that machine had a high duty cycle, and would switch from .030 hard wire to .045 fluxcore in about 10 minutes. Then you have the issue of preheating heavy steel. If you don't, the mig will lay on top of the metal and literally fall off. Try this first... the rod determines the amperage, a 1/16" rod will need around 60 amps as a starting point (1/16 = 1 divided by 16), 1/8" = 1 divided by 8, or 125 amps this gives you a very general start point. 6010/6011 rod is likely the best choice to start with. It is a great penetrating ,all position rod that is forgiving. you are going to strike an arc, angle the rod so it is leading the weld and pointing back into it like this ........../ now keep the arc length to about 1/8 to 1/4" high. move the rod like you are going forward about 3/4", and dragging a penny back into the puddle. Pause at the puddle and watch the metal form the new puddle , then repeat. like this (((((((((((((/ drag-pause, drag-pause, drag pause... If the rod is too hot and orange, turn it down, if it sticks a lot, and won't keep an arc, turn it up... If you are burning through, turn down and move faster. There are dozens of rods for dozens of jobs, that's why I like stick.

 

[mbohuntr]

OHHH, You can also attach a TIG unit to a nice stick unit, Your gonna LOVE that! "bout the only thing you probably can't do is aluminum, And I'm not sure about that...You need AC and high frequency for that.

 

[kenmac]

Depends on the project. Sometimes I use stick, Other times I use mig. With my mig, I always use gas

 

[4shorts]

I have just about every type of welding machine there is to have because it's part of my work and if there was a fire in the shop and I had only enough time to take one welding machine out it would be the Mig. Just love that machine. It's used 90 % off the time over the rest but it will never replace the stick welder. My opinion, nothing will and it will always have a place in the welding world.

 

[patrick_g]

I have a Lincoln Weld Pak 100 MIG (120 VAC) which came set up to use gas or flux core. I have never used gas with it, just flux core. I just love it. I have had it for over 10 years (don't remember when I bought it at a big box store.) I abuse the heck out of it and it just keeps on welding. It outperforms the el cheapo brand X units by a recognizable margin. When I have to weld serious stuff, say 1/4 inch or thicker or need more heat and penetration I use my Lincoln AC/DC "Tombstone" stick welder. I really don't need more power than the tombstone can deliver.

It is a shame but too often folks buy the bargain crap brand X machines and when they perform poorly decide welding isn't so neat or they can't weld or whatever when they could probably do OK with a decent machine and a little instruction. Welding just isn't all that difficult and doesn't require superhuman abilities. Sure there will be a wide spectrum of abilities but nearly anyone can be taught to weld mild steel acceptably, especially down hand.

Atwoods recently started selling a small welder (how small is it???) It is smaller than a toaster. I wonder how many people will plop down the $100 and find out GEE, I guess I can't weld.

Pat

 

[flusher]

I'm pretty fed up with of my little $90 stick welder and I'm thinking of getting a Gas/Gasless MIG. I've never used MIG but I'm guessing I'll be using the cored gasless wire most of the time. So I'm wondering whats the difference in ease and quality of gasless MIG compared to ordinary stick welding. Do you still have to chip the slag off a gasless mig weld? If gasless mig is not all that much easier than stick welding then its probably not worth me moving up.

Thanks for any comments.

I got rid of my Harbor Freight $100 AC/DC stick welder and stepped up to a $400 Hobart LX AC/DC unit. Big improvement!!! Mostly weld 6011 DC+. No problem once you're able to hold a steady gap. Go slow, watch the puddle and you'll get good welds.

Thinking about learning MIG welding. It's supposed to be easier than stick. We'll see.

 

[jgrreed]

Question for the experienced....

I'm going to start to learn to weld soon, and I'm really excited about it. I'm not the type of guy to 'cheap out', and I like to have capable and reliable equipment. I know I'll start with the easy stuff, but can see myself doing heavier stuff (implements, etc) soon.

What would your suggestion be for brand (I know Lincoln is a good name) and model or capacity of a MIG??

What about a plasma cutter?? From the bit of reading I've done I was thinking a 40A cutter, cause it'll cut up to 1" poorly, and 1/2" nicely. I thought those were reasonable limits for a home setup.

-Jer.