Welding on new cylinders

[picker77]

Yeah, I know, I'm just full of hydraulics questions this week.

Thinking of building a hydraulic side link, which will require welding a ball end and clevis on a new cylinder. Welding the clevis on the rod end doesn't worry me much, I can use water-soaked rags for a heat sink, but welding on the other end does concern me. I presume new cylinders have been pressure tested at the factory after assembly and will contain residual oil. Would welding heat fry that coating of oil and turn it into grit/crud inside the cylinder, to be later transferred to the rest of my system? Seems I'd have to either manually extend the rod and hope for the best, or remove the rod/piston altogether. I know others have done this, so I'm looking for some advice on what worked. Thanks.

 

[kennyd]

The best way to do it (IMHO) is to disassemble the cylinder. Removing the gland nut and pulling the rod should be fairly easy.

 

[J_J]

Pull the rod, drain the fluid, clean all oil using Dawn detergent, dry, weld, let cool, then use oil soaked lint free rag to wipe the inside out, apply hyd fluid to bore, insert rod and assemble.

If you don't get all the oil out, the heat may turn the oil to carbon, and cause other problems.

 

[dfkrug]

That is all good advice, PICKER.

I also like to air-pressure test the welds. This can be done by adapting
a schrader valve to the extend fitting and using soapy water. If you do
not do this and have a pinhole oil leak, it is MUCH harder to re-weld
oil-contaminated pinholes.

Also, if you are changing the clevis end on your rod, you may want to
consider going to a cross-tube instead of a clevis end. They are
much easier to keep lubricated with zerks.

 

[wdchyd]

If you are not removing the butt plate and the cyl is long enough, there is no reason to upset the integrity of the factory welds.....just extend out and have a garden hose trickling water between the butt plate and where you can estimate where the piston head is before you weld it back together....simple fix......

 

[/pine]

I wish someone would produce a side link cylinder (at a reasonable cost) that has heavy duty threaded (female) couplers already welded to both ends of the cylinder...where the working ends of existing manual (adjustable) side-links could be cut off and threaded into said couplers...that could be easily welded or locked with a set screw etc.)

Seems to me like there would be a viable market for such generic side links...?

BTW...I have no copyright or patents pending on this idea...so have at it...just thank me later

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I wish someone would produce a side link cylinder (at a reasonable cost) that has heavy duty threaded (female) couplers already welded to both ends of the cylinder...where the working ends of existing manual (adjustable) side-links could be cut off and threaded into said couplers...that could be easily welded or locked with a set screw etc.)

Seems to me like there would be a viable market for such generic side links...?

BTW...I have no copyright or patents pending on this idea...so have at it...just thank me later

Besides that your idea would add to much length to the assembly for a lot if not most CUTs, what do you consider a reasonable cost?

 

[/pine]

what do you consider a reasonable cost?

to determine a "reasonable" cost for a generac cylinder I would need to know the average cost of custom built side link cylinders...I do know that many different tractor side-link lift arms have many different top and bottom configurations...i.e., clevis and eye-balls with different angles etc...

Having to know what said configurations are for every make and model tractors are AND having to stock these lift arm links for all the makes and models would make fabricating custom side-link cylinders much more expensive than a generic cylinder would cost (one config. fits all)...granted customers could send the fabricator their existing side link but IMO that is adding logistical complications...

...that your idea would add to much length to the assembly for a lot if not most CUTs...

this may be true for a number of links but there is a couple of very simple solutions to the length problem...
...one option is simply having the threads extended to the very base of the clevis or eyeball ends of existing links ...this is a very simple process for any machine shop or fabricator

a second option is for a manufacturer (of generic cylinders) would be to supply a length of "all thread" with each cylinder compatible with the female ends on the (generic) cylinders that could be welded to the ends of existing side link ends...

All in all I think the slight amount of work required to make a "generic" cylinder compatible with just about any tactor of any size would be much less work and much less costly than the trouble already previously described in this thread...i.e., disassembling a cylinder etc...

 

[Craig Clayton]

What ever method you use to weld on the cylinder, empty, drained ,purged, etc, the weld will cause shrinkage which could cause binding of the tube or distortion of the rod.
Craig Clayton

 

[MtnViewRanch]

to determine a "reasonable" cost for a generac cylinder I would need to know the average cost of custom built side link cylinders...I do know that many different tractor side-link lift arms have many different top and bottom configurations...i.e., clevis and eye-balls with different angles etc...

Having to know what said configurations are for every make and model tractors are AND having to stock these lift arm links for all the makes and models would make fabricating custom side-link cylinders much more expensive than a generic cylinder would cost (one config. fits all)...granted customers could send the fabricator their existing side link but IMO that is adding logistical complications...



this may be true for a number of links but there is a couple of very simple solutions to the length problem...
...one option is simply having the threads extended to the very base of the clevis or eyeball ends of existing links ...this is a very simple process for any machine shop or fabricator

a second option is for a manufacturer (of generic cylinders) would be to supply a length of "all thread" with each cylinder compatible with the female ends on the (generic) cylinders that could be welded to the ends of existing side link ends...

All in all I think the slight amount of work required to make a "generic" cylinder compatible with just about any tactor of any size would be much less work and much less costly than the trouble already previously described in this thread...i.e., disassembling a cylinder etc...

Average cost for a custom hydraulic side link is around $250 . The average CUT uses a 4" stroke for that custom side link. The body of the hydraulic is 8 1/2" long. allow 1/2" of rod to be sticking out and now you are at 9". A common overall length for a 25-35hp CUT is 16-17 inches center line at pins middle of stroke. So you have 7" to get the deep bottom clevis on and whatever the top takes whether it a clevis or a ball end.

Now you want to make the body at least 2" longer by having pre existing ends thread onto the ends. They need to thread in a minimum of 1" at each end and really should be more. Now your at a 2" total stroke, not much tilting there with 1" of travel in each direction.

Again not real practical IMO. Keep in mind that these are not a high volume product.

 

[/pine]

Now you want to make the body at least 2" longer by having pre existing ends thread onto the ends. They need to thread in a minimum of 1" at each end and really should be more...

this is a bogus assumption IMO... the average depth of "purchase" for a 7/8" 3ph pin is only 3/4" i.e.,thickness of the nuts that hold the pins in place...AND

Everything I have seen and read about DIY side links...where individuals have cut the ends off their existing side links and welded them to cylinders utilize approximately 1/2" to 3/4" of the stems of the clevis or eye ball ends......
IMO just welding the existing lock nuts to either end of the cylinders would suffice...especially if once threaded in a set screw was secured...

How often are side link adjustments are made at the maximum or the minimum of a typical manually adjusted side link?

The whole point is...a manufacturer of hydraulic cylinders could produce a line of cylinders that would make customizing side-links much easier than what is currently available...without the need for the end user to worry about welding on said cylinder...

[edited]

I do now see where CCM is advertising "custom side links" for the price you cited however that is $100 less than the price I was originally quoted ...
Also the picture on the CCM site IMO is not a "customized" side link...it looks quite generic to me...
I do stand corrected on the prices...but I also stand by my observation that someone could produce a DIY cylinder for less $

 

[MtnViewRanch]

this is a bogus assumption IMO... the average depth of "purchase" for a 7/8" 3ph pin is only 3/4" i.e.,thickness of the nuts that hold the pins in place...AND

Everything I have seen and read about DIY side links...where individuals have cut the ends off their existing side links and welded them to cylinders utilize approximately 1/2" to 3/4" of the stems of the clevis or eye ball ends......
IMO just welding the existing lock nuts to either end of the cylinders would suffice...especially if once threaded in a set screw was secured...

How often are side link adjustments are made at the maximum or the minimum of a typical manually adjusted side link?

The whole point is...a manufacturer of hydraulic cylinders could produce a line of cylinders that would make customizing side-links much easier than what is currently available...without the need for the end user to worry about welding on said cylinder...

[edited]

I do now see where CCM is advertising "custom side links" for the price you cited however that is $100 less than the price I was originally quoted ...
Also the picture on the CCM site IMO is not a "customized" side link...it looks quite generic to me...
I do stand corrected on the prices...but I also stand by my observation that someone could produce a DIY cylinder for less $

To start with, to get full strength of a bolt, it needs to screw into whatever as far as the size of the bolt that is being used, 7/8 should screw in 7/8 and so on. Any one that cleans out ditches or is making ditches would use full tilt IMO. On my tractors that is only 11 or 12 degrees. My small tractor has a 4" stoke and my bigger tractor has an 8" stroke. As you can see, my box blades really don't tilt all that far and you are talking about cutting that tilt down. Whenever I build a side link, I do my best to match whatever the stock adjustable link has for its adjustable capacity.

My feeling is that what you are asking for would take a very long time to pay for the initial investment and is most likely why it does not currently exist.

Again all of this is just my opinion of what you have asked about, if someone chooses to do this, all the more power to them.

 

[/pine]

MVR...you do make valid points and I understand them...

obvioulsy if there was enough demand someone would already be making such things available...

I am curious though about the custom links for $250...
My side links (B1700) have a distinct angle on the top of the link...I guess I need to call CCM and see if this price include that type of customization...

another thought...would having boths sides adjustable not give a greater amount of tilt? I have seen hitches with cylinders on both sides but not sure why?

and I do appreciate the feedback...

 

[MtnViewRanch]

MVR...you do make valid points and I understand them...

obvioulsy if there was enough demand someone would already be making such things available...

I am curious though about the custom links for $250...
My side links (B1700) have a distinct angle on the top of the link...I guess I need to call CCM and see if this price include that type of customization...

another thought...would having boths sides adjustable not give a greater amount of tilt? I have seen hitches with cylinders on both sides but not sure why?

and I do appreciate the feedback...

If your tractor is similar to a B3030, that top angle that you are talking about is 14 degrees. I have no idea if CCM figures that type of thing in their building of it. If you were to purchase a Side Link from me, it would have ends that were like the factory ends at the factory angles that you now have with your standard link.

Yes having both sides adjust will give you double the possible available angle. I believe that 3RRL has double hydraulic Side Links on both his and his wife's tractors. :cool2: Many of the cat 2 tractors come standard with 2 adjustable Side Links.