water-water-water

[jfakerj]

I’ve got some water problems. Where I dug out for the pole barn to go I have water coming out of the bank. I dug this in the summer and it’s been dry until today. I have to go back about another 40’ which will make the bank about 6’ high. After see the water running out the now 3’ bank I decided to go up above to the top of where I’ll dig out and dig a hole with the bh. I dug down about 6’ and on the way down hit water at about 2 ½’. It’s just running in the hole at I’d guess about ½ gal per minute. The soil is mostly sandy and some rocks down as far as I went. The ground on top is dry and I would never had thought there could be that much water down there in and around the fir trees.

My question is, if I dig back farther, so I can have the pole barn on the property the way I want it, will the water just continue to come out of the bank and will a curtain drain handle the water. The water that’s running out of the bank about ½ way down is running on top of the ground for about 15’ before it all goes back into the ground. I’m thinking that If I had a curtain drain when finished it would probably do the same thing (run back into the ground).

My jaw just dropped when I saw all that water. It took the wind right out of my sails. I don’t know much about this so any help or comments will be greatly appreciated. Thanks


Jerry

 

[Paul_in_CT]

Jerry
I`m no expert but I live on a spring -fed lake and have encounter my share of groundwater. I have a hand dug well on my property (5ft deep by 4ft wide) that never runs dry. I was using it for flushing water for toilets (for about 100 people a day) A curtain drain can be made to handle the water. I would suggest you spend the extra money and use the solid perforated pipe not the black corrogated. I dug up many clogged black pipes. basically you are gravel then pipe(holes down) more gravel then fabric then soil. Or if you want to drain surface water after a rain then gravel it to the top of the trench. For example to handle runoff from the roof. If it is going to be a long run you might want to put a tee in somewhere so you could unscrew the cap and clear out the pipe with a hose if necessary. Where are you planing to send the extra water? I just ran mine to the shoreline and let it run into the lake. You can make a dry well. Another thing you can do is make a small shallow well and use that to water gardens,wash the tractor /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. I have some project pics I will find them and scan them in. Let me know if or what you would like to see

 

[cedarranch]

Paul, let's see them all!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[therrien]

I've had good luck using the fibre socks over my pvc drain pipe. I like the heavy black one that HDepot has rather than the thin light colored one.
It might be overkill but in all my drains, I trench-landscape cloth-3/4 stone-cloth covered pipe-3/4 stone-wrap the 1st layer of landscape clothe over itself-more 3/4 stone to top or stone then topsoil.I never want to touch these drains again.

2 cents- If your well is high in iron DO NOT WASH VEHICLES OR YOUR TRACTOR WITH THIS WATER.
The water will promote the start of rust in the little crevaces, and once it starts its allmost impossible to stop completely.

Doug T B1700 TLB

 

[Paul_inCT]

ok Dave you may be opening pandoras box...I have so many project pics.../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif and I dont even have my tractor yet!! Kinda scary what will happen after the machine is delivered. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[jfakerj]

Paul
I just came back from the property where I dug some more exploration holes with the bh. Where I wanted to put the pole barn there is water 1'to2' under the graound, It's coming (Ithink) from the hill above on my property, running down the valley and onto the slop where I'd like to build. All this is happening just under the suface of the ground.I dug a long ditch about 1 1/2' deep to see how much water I'd have to devert. It's massive. There's a creek flowing in the ditch. I can only guess at the amount of water that would flow if I'd dig down the 6' or so needed to put in the building. I don't think that any curtain drain would be able to keep up with the water, but even if it did, I'd have a winter creek running all the way down the side of my peoperty that the drive way is on. It's time to regroup. I dug some other hole down hill about 40' farther and there's water at about 5'. About another 40' down hill and there's no water at 6'. This tells me that I'd better move everything down hill a bit. I'm going to keep an eye on the holes and probably dig some more in Jan. when the water table should be at it's highest. I'm sure glad I dug these holes now because the ones I dug in late summer were clear and dry. Even moving the building down hill I'll still have to put in a curtain drain but I think it'll be for a small amount of water not a river. Thanks for the input.

Jerry

 

[jfakerj]

Doug
Did they have any fabric left at the store when you were done? Just kiding. I know what you mean by not wanting to do it again. I'll probably over kill mine also and not with any of that black junk pipe. Had too many problems with the stuff. Thanks for the over kill advice, it's well taken.

Jerry

 

[BXmark]

Back in July, 1974, I know a guy who dug a house foundation into a hillside. The idea was to have the downhill side be a daylight basement with sliding glass doors. A few weeks later rains came, the basement had 2 feet of water running through it and out the sliding door openings. Engineers determined that it was a spring and he had to abandon the whole project and loose the cost of that foundation. Luckily, you noticed the problem before it cost you a bundle.

 

[Paul_in_CT]

ok here`s some pics not the greatest ones but I just started digging thru the box

 

[Paul_in_CT]

pic number 2 . Jerry as u can see in this photo I have a exceptionally large catch basin at the end of my run....(the lake) /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Paul_in_CT on 12/06/01 10:32 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Paul_in_CT]

and here is the rental machine that made it all possible . This little dig it just kept on going.

 

[Paul_in_CT]

Now if I just could have fit the Dig-It thru the front door I would have been in heaven. This the only digging machine I ever owned!! Sometimes I had a hard time getting this machine started../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Paul_in_CT on 12/06/01 10:38 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[jfakerj]

Paul
I've got a digging machine like that some where. Have not used it much since I bought the bh.
If I could drain mine out like yours maybe i'd go for it, but the way it is - no way. That digit looks like a sweet machine for bh work.

Jerry

 

[Paul_in_CT]

yeah my manual digging machine ignition isnt as reliable as before and I got tired of paying to rent a machine. Then rushing for a week to get the job done rain or shine. So I`m finally breaking down and buying my own Kubota. I just wish it would get here. I feel like an anxious kid. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif That dig was a good little TLB much better than the terramites.

 

[RichNJ]

When we dug the foundation for our house we hit a spring. It flows several GPM. Luckily the excavator knew what to do. He dug down deeper and placed drain pipes and a layer of larger gravel about 2 feet deep. Then 2 feet of 3/4 gravel and then the rigid insulation, concrete clab, etc. The pipes go down the hill to daylight and there is always alot of water coming out but our basement is bone dry.
In the end it cost a couple thousand extra but moving the house on paper would have cost more.

 

[jfakerj]

RichNJ
I think in my case moving everthing down hill will be much better. It won't change anythingwith the house or the pole barn because it the same slope. The one thing that will change is the view. Won't be as good, but I'd rather do that than have to worry about pipe plugging under the barn or house. Big problems if that were to happen. Beside the house is not really set up for a view any way. Except for the front porch all the rest of our living will be on the uphill side of the house. More private that way. So instead of the house being 550' off the road it'll be about 450'. No big deal.

Jerry

 

[AndyR]

Take a look at "Curtain Wall Drain" that I posted over in photos. I am dealing with hard clay soil for most of this project so sand provides a good channel. In my case, the ground water tends to be moving more horizontally. With your sand it almost sounds more like a water table issue - but if you go deep and size your pipe right will you should be able to stay high and dry!

Andy in NH

 

[jfakerj]

My ground water is moving horizontally also. It's comming down the the steep hill above me and is saturating the ground as it moves down my sloping property. Every day the water has moved a little father down the hill and is now at my perk holes that have been dry until now.. The top one has about 2' of water in it(4' hole). The next hole has about 1' and the bottom one has none. I sure hope the engineer already had this perked because it'd never perk now. The holes I dug up farther on the hill that were 1/2 full a week ago are now overflowing. My rough calculations tell me that putting in a curtain drain (about 100' wide) will yeild about 10 gpm water flow at the depth I'll have to go. That's a lot of water. I'll have to take the water from just above where the pole barn will be and discharge it in my field just below where my drain field will be. I'm thinking that may devert enough water to dry up the drain field(probably using 6"pipe). There's about 1-1/2 acres there before the road and I hope that's enough ground to handle that much water. No problem if I had a lake down there instead of the county road. Maybe I can make one with that much water.

Jerry

 

[MarkV]

Jerry,

Will your house be on a septic system? With the amount of water you are seeing, I would sure make finding a place for the field a high priority. I would think some creative drain lines could take care of the building site, but the septic field is a differnt cup of tea.

Good luck and keep us up to date.

MarkV

 

[jfakerj]

MarkV
I just came back from the property and after digging some more test holes I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to talk to an engineer before I do anything else. I fust need hem to tell me what I'm dealing with here, not to actually design anything. I hate to spend that kind of money but I don't see how I can afford not to. I can already see I'll have to move the drain field slightly.

Jerry