Water and Electricity don't mix

[ultrarunner]

My tenant came home to find water running under the garage door, steam in the garage and that acrid smell of burning insulation.

The washing machine hose apparently sprung a leak sending a stream of water to the 240 volt dryer outlet... the result was sizzle and arcing to the point the dryer pigtail was bare copper at the plug and the wall around the junction box charred.

The 30 amp breaker never tripped.

This is my first experience with water and electricity... not good.

 

[jinjimbob]

Federal Pacific Electric FPE brand breaker panel?

 

[Craig Clayton]

I always called them Future Problem Electric FPE.
Craig Clayton

 

[Steve_Miller]

As stupid as it sounds that the breaker didn't trip, it's possible for that to happen as the current probably never got over the 30 amp threshold to trip the breaker. This is where most electrical fires happen as the current never reaches the trip level and fire is created from the arcing. There are newer arc fault breakers that are creeping into the market on a smaller scale but are quite expensive. They are now required around our parts to be installed in bedrooms or sleeping areas. I don't know the reasoning for just the sleeping area but so far that is the only place required by law. These breakers are a smart device which monitors the current and senses spiking or spuratic currents and will trip the breaker to prevent the arcing type condition the first poster would have seen.


Steve

P.S. As much as I hate them I have an FPE panel in my house (twenty years now). I have tested several of these breakers and they all have tripped at there rated currents. For those of you that want to know how I did this I used a heavy duty rheostat from where I work. I removed the breaker from the panel and did it on my work bench. I didn't beleive that some of these breakers wouldn't trip until an electrician demoed it to me one day. We were at someones house and he took an old pair of pliers he had and bit into a 14/2 cable at the panel shorting it and the breaker did not trip even to the point where the cable started to melt the plastic off of it.

 

[RobertBrown]

The 30 amp breaker never tripped.

This is my first experience with water and electricity... not good.

Might seem like it's "not good" but you might want to consider yourself very lucky. That could have been a lot worse!

 

[podagrower]

There are newer arc fault breakers that are creeping into the market on a smaller scale but are quite expensive. They are now required around our parts to be installed in bedrooms or sleeping areas.


Steve

P.S. As much as I hate them I have an FPE panel in my house (twenty years now). I have tested several of these breakers and they all have tripped at there rated currents.

Depending on what code cycle you are in south of the border (US), Arc Fault is now required almost everywhere throughout the home.

In Canada, you have Federal Pacific and Federal Pioneer (same design, but Federal Pioneer actually works as I understand), Square D still (I think) manufactures these panels and breakers for Canadian use.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yes... quite lucky indeed.

Also fortunate the Washer/Dryer are located in the attached garage.

And yes... All the homes of that era here have FPE panels... mine, my parents, grandparents, etc.

I tend to think the draw never reached the tripping point... I've seen it happen with other devices... one was a 100' extension cord plugged into a battery charger for the Dozer... earlier that day a neighbor pulled into the yard and drove over the cord... must have damaged the insulation cause I was smelling that burnt smell in the air and found 15' of insulation smoldering... it was glowing like a toaster element.

 

[rekees4300]

Federal Pacific Electric FPE brand breaker panel?

Had an electrician replaced our FPE panel last year after reading on internet they are a fire hazard. Cost $1000 but peace of mind worth it IMO.

 

[tcartwri]

Tap water is a poor conductor at best, so the current draw would have been relatively small, but enough to heat everything up until it melted the insulation on the wires. Scary stuff.

 

[ultrarunner]

Tap water is a poor conductor at best, so the current draw would have been relatively small, but enough to heat everything up until it melted the insulation on the wires. Scary stuff.

It did a good job of that... the dryer plug was just three bare spades sticking out of charred receptacle and the 120 outlet next to it was badly burnt...

Lots of water in the wall cavity where the j-boxes are...

I probably should have taken a picture... just imagine taking a propane torch to the outlet/cord and you've got the idea.

I also replace the breaker... $65.

 

[jinjimbob]

I also replace the breaker... $65.

If I were you I'd test a few breakers. Short some circuits out, see if the breakers actually trip.

 

[Redneck in training]

Tap water is a poor conductor at best, so the current draw would have been relatively small, but enough to heat everything up until it melted the insulation on the wires. Scary stuff.

That is true as long as the water is clean. When it gets in contact in example with dust it might be quite conductive. The outlets are made of "Bakelite" that when charred carbonizes and also become conductive. So I can imagine that when the outlet got wet is slowly escalated to the point of burning.

 

[SpringHollow]

I really like GFCI breakers. I heard they were coming out with GFCI/Arc breakers but I have yet to see them. I could put inArc breakers and then use a GFCI outlet before anything else but i have not had good luck with the outlets.

Ken

 

[Runner]

Ultrarunner,

Glad to hear it wasn't a complete disaster and no one hurt. Could have been a lot worse.

After my first washer hose break experience (first floor, finished basement ceiling below...) I started replacing them every two years and labeling the date on a piece of duct tape attached to each hose.

Anyone know the actual safe useful life for these hoses?

Wonder why someone hasn't come up with something like the flexible metallic gas lines to replace rubber hoses for this purpose?

 

[ultrarunner]

Ultrarunner,

Glad to hear it wasn't a complete disaster and no one hurt. Could have been a lot worse.

After my first washer hose break experience (first floor, finished basement ceiling below...) I started replacing them every two years and labeling the date on a piece of duct tape attached to each hose.

Anyone know the actual safe useful life for these hoses?

Wonder why someone hasn't come up with something like the flexible metallic gas lines to replace rubber hoses for this purpose?

The washer and dryer were left by the previous tenant 5 years ago...

I have bought braided lines with 10 year warranty... the only ones I could find last night are made in China and have a 1 year warranty.

Since the pair is in the garage... I never worried much about it.

The have tenants promised to turn off the hose bibs when not using the Washer...