UNBIASED opinion

[Farmwithjunk]

Question on innertubes. I know there's a difference between radial tubes and "regular" tubes. But what IS the difference? I know you need to use radial tubes in radial tires. But should you use radial tubes in BIAS ply tires? Why/why not?

Enquiring minds want to know

 

[DK35vince]

I don't know what the differance is. But I just put a new tube in the rear tire of my JD. Tube said on it, "for use in radial or bias ply tires".

 

[crbr]

Where did you come across said designation of two types of inner tubes? Just curious. I'm thinking there's not a radial type tube, thus I ask what prompts you to ask?

:tiphat:

 

[Jstpssng]

Question on innertubes. I know there's a difference between radial tubes and "regular" tubes. But what IS the difference? I know you need to use radial tubes in radial tires. But should you use radial tubes in BIAS ply tires? Why/why not?

Enquiring minds want to know

Do you even need to ask? You have more experience with equipment; and have forgotten more things; than many of us will ever know.

Is it a safety issue if the tube fails at 3 MPH? Mostly it's just a PITA.

That deliniation is for high speed street use, rather than for farm use. It's also rather outdated. Many of us used to stretch the life of our pickup tires by sticking a tube into it. With better tire strructure and improved infrasructure, people go for years without having a flat.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Where did you come across said designation of two types of inner tubes? Just curious. I'm thinking there's not a radial type tube, thus I ask what prompts you to ask?

:tiphat:

Ah.... But there IS a radial tube. Radial tractor tires are marked with instructions to use ONLY radial tubes. Last case of tubes I bought (13.6x28/14.9x28) were marked as 136/14.9R as a part #. Marked on tube "For use with radial tires". Mainly I wanted to know if it's ok to use radial tubes in bias tires.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Do you even need to ask? You have more experience with equipment; and have forgotten more things; than many of us will ever know.

That deliniation is for high speed street use, rather than for farm use. It's also rather outdated. Many of us used to stretch the life of our pickup tires by sticking a tube into it. With better tire strructure and improved infrasructure, people go for years without having a flat.

Well, I'll go along with the fact that I've FORGOT a lot. Question is, how much did I know in the first place?

Radial tractor tires are marked to use ONLY radial tubes in radial tires. Also seems most tractor tubes nowdays ARE for radial tires.

And, uh, by the way, you're talking with a guy who's had THREE flats so far this week.

 

[BillyP]

Question on innertubes. I know there's a difference between radial tubes and "regular" tubes. But what IS the difference? I know you need to use radial tubes in radial tires. But should you use radial tubes in BIAS ply tires? Why/why not?

Enquiring minds want to know

The way it was explained to me was the radial tube in a radial tire converges into a common center. There for easier to balance.

If you put a bias tube in a radial tire or radial tire with a bias tube you get that criss cross wobble which is impossible to balance.

Do what you want but I'd stick with radial radial or bias bias but I'll admit I'm biased.

Edit: I don't have a clue. I thought it was a joke

 

[BTDT]

Here's the link
Tubes

Here's a quote from said link

RADIAL-TIRE TUBE- The construction of an inner tube for use in a radial tire differs from the tube used in a bias tire. A radial tire flexes in such a manner that it concentrates the flex action in one area and at the edge of the belts in the shoulder of the tire. This concentration of stress will damage a standard tube causing it to fail. To overcome this problem, the radial tube is made of a special rubber compound that is designed to overcome this concentrated stress; Therefore, standard tubes must NEVER be used in radial tires.

I think it would depend on application. I don't think all I've learned about car/truck/trailer tires applies all the time to tractors (for instance rotating tires).

 

[Farmwithjunk]

bias


The way it was explained to me was the radial tube in a radial tire converges into a common center. There for easier to balance.

If you put a bias tube in a radial tire or radial tire with a bias tube you get that criss cross wobble which is impossible to balance.

Do what you want but I'd stick with radial radial or bias bias but I'll admit I'm biased.

The guy I was hoping would respond! Thanks!

I've got one tractor with radials. We sliced the sidewall open on it 2 days ago. (6" or 7" gash" from bead out to tread) I ordered a new tire and tube. I've also had a rash of flats on 2 of the smaller tractors in the last few weeks. (Both run 14.9x28" bias ply) I bought a case (6) new tubes. What I got is a box of radial tubes. After closer examination, the box says "for radial OR bias ply tires". I've got 2 of them in tires now. The ONLY thing I can see is the radial tubes are smoother and slicker than any tubes I've ever seen before. That, and they ain't cheap either.

 

[john_bud]

The guy I was hoping would respond! Thanks!

I've got one tractor with radials. We sliced the sidewall open on it 2 days ago. (6" or 7" gash" from bead out to tread) I ordered a new tire and tube. I've also had a rash of flats on 2 of the smaller tractors in the last few weeks. (Both run 14.9x28" bias ply) I bought a case (6) new tubes. What I got is a box of radial tubes. After closer examination, the box says "for radial OR bias ply tires". I've got 2 of them in tires now. The ONLY thing I can see is the radial tubes are smoother and slicker than any tubes I've ever seen before. That, and they ain't cheap either.

Farm,

While it is expensive, have you thought about foam filling the tires on your mowing machines? The price of the foam is probably less than the down time you have from all these flats....

just a thought.

jb

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Farm,

While it is expensive, have you thought about foam filling the tires on your mowing machines? The price of the foam is probably less than the down time you have from all these flats....

just a thought.

jb

These tractors serve a double duty life. Mowing by day, er, well, by evening in most cases, and farming by, ah, well, by evening too. With 3 out of 4, tires are anywhere from 75% to 50%. Will be replacing in a year or so. I'll replace with 6 or 8 ply tires then. The exeption is the new one. The Deere 6430. At least it doesn't have fluid in the tires... And one doesn't have any AIR in it right now. (New tire made it here yesterday. Tire service will be at the scene of the crime at 8am) If we have a good year, and it looks to be headed that way, most likely we'll be buying a new tractor or 2 before next season. They may get foamed tires. At the very least, 8-ply R-4's.

 

[BobG_in_VA]

Radial tubes are (for one thing) much thicker than bias ply tubes. this is what the Goodyear guy told me. I've got one in a '57 Farmall 230. BobG in VA

 

[EddieWalker]

I read an article in one of the construction trade magazines that compared running radial tires on heavy equipment compared to bias tires. The initial expense was much greater for the radial tires, but there service was so much longer that it more then made up for the upfront cost and was a huge savings over time.

Don't know about tubes.

Eddie

 

[N80]

I guess my uninformed understanding of radials is about right. I always thought the point of a radial is that it changes shape as it rotates. In other words the point contacting the ground expands into an 'oval-ish' shape to provide a bigger contact patch. A bias-ply, on the other hand, pretty much maintains its shape throughout rotation. So, the radial requires a specific design in the sidewall to allow for this change in shape and to handle the heat associated with it. If any of this is correct, it stands to reason that a 'radial' tube, would need to have some of the same properties.

However, it seems that on large slow moving tires, like a tractor, it wouldn't be that much of a factor. Do the radial tubes cost much more?

Finally, what, exactly is the primary benefit of radial tractor tires? Someone mentioned longer wear. Why? It seems to me that would be a compound issue. And if they do 'flex' radially like a car tire is supposed to, can you see it? Does it really provide a greater footprint? Just wondering because the major tire web sites are really pushing these radials hard and they are way more expensive.

For my mixed use, which involves a lot of work in woods with brush stobs etc, unless the radials provide significantly more punture/cut resistant side walls, they wouldn't make much sense for me. If I rip the sidewall out of my bias tire, it will cost a lot less to replace...I'm assuming. (And I have ripped the sidewall out of one of my truck tires (radials) before.)

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I guess my uninformed understanding of radials is about right. I always thought the point of a radial is that it changes shape as it rotates. In other words the point contacting the ground expands into an 'oval-ish' shape to provide a bigger contact patch. A bias-ply, on the other hand, pretty much maintains its shape throughout rotation. So, the radial requires a specific design in the sidewall to allow for this change in shape and to handle the heat associated with it. If any of this is correct, it stands to reason that a 'radial' tube, would need to have some of the same properties.

However, it seems that on large slow moving tires, like a tractor, it wouldn't be that much of a factor. Do the radial tubes cost much more?

Finally, what, exactly is the primary benefit of radial tractor tires? Someone mentioned longer wear. Why? It seems to me that would be a compound issue. And if they do 'flex' radially like a car tire is supposed to, can you see it? Does it really provide a greater footprint? Just wondering because the major tire web sites are really pushing these radials hard and they are way more expensive.

For my mixed use, which involves a lot of work in woods with brush stobs etc, unless the radials provide significantly more punture/cut resistant side walls, they wouldn't make much sense for me. If I rip the sidewall out of my bias tire, it will cost a lot less to replace...I'm assuming. (And I have ripped the sidewall out of one of my truck tires (radials) before.)

Radial TIRES cost MUCH more. Radial tubes seem to be in line with bias tubes, except that bias tubes seem to be disappearing from inventories at tire vendors.

Radials provide much better traction. They can be operated at a lower pressure. That provides the better "contact patch". That bigger contact area has some effect in reducing compaction. (lbs per sq in)

Radials are rumored to be more puncture resistant. I say that as I'm about to drive out to pay a tire repair service for mounting a new radial to replace the one that got ripped wide open (on a tee post) this past tuesday afternoon.

A couple friends of mine that are in to pulling tractors swear radials do provide significantly better traction.

My "theory" on the tubes goes something like this. I've split standard bias tubes before while running uncommonly low air pressures in bias tires. I've had a couple rip the valve stem out of the tube while plowing with low tire pressures. Radials are meant to run at lower pressures. I'd suspect the radial tubes are more flexable, and more forgiving in low pressure use. Maybe a "softer" rubber compound?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Radial tubes are (for one thing) much thicker than bias ply tubes. this is what the Goodyear guy told me. I've got one in a '57 Farmall 230. BobG in VA

That may apply to GoodYear tubes, but apparently not with Firestone. The tube I removed was an older Firestone "conventional" bias rated tube. New Firestone Radial rated tube was quite a bit thinner rubber. My tire guy said the biggest difference he can see is in the way the valve stem is integrated into the tube itself. More flexable. He didn't have a definative answer either.

I emailed Firestone's tech dept. I'll post their reply when I get it.

 

[woodchuckie]

Here's some explanation and information concerning tubes and then a link to the whole article.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Well, thanks to AMS you now have the correct tubes to install in those radials when they suffer a puncture that can’t be patched. Because of the significant differences in how a radial tire performs, a proper repair requires a tube designed to match the profile of the tire. A radial tube. Radial tubes have an advanced radial compound and profile that matches the design of a radial tire, and as you know it’s not recommended that tubes intended for bias-ply tires ever be used in a radial; a bias-ply type tube won’t conform to the shape of that radial casing.

[/FONT]AMS Tires

 

[LBrown59]

Do what you want but I'd stick with radial radial or bias bias but I'll admit I'm biased.

Ya doesen't hasta get radial about it.

 

[LBrown59]

Question is, how much did I know in the first place?

.

Yep the 64000 dollar question.