Tractor tipping - how easy?

Jay4200 · Nov 28, 2005

Another rank newbie question:

I have ready several tales of tractors ending up shiny-side-down. I haven't driven on my land yet, but my lot is sloped with multiple grades of varying steepness (is that even a word?), so before I make an ugly mistake, I figured I'd ask about it. How easy do these things tip over and what kind of lean angle can they tolerate? Is a lean-meter a good idea?

I am getting a L4200 w/ FEL and Woods BH9000 backhoe. The tires are currently uneavenly loaded (evidently the previous owner had a flat so one side got drained). Loading is supposidly not necessary with the BH, although I will probably take it off when I'm not digging holes. I was thinking of equalizing the two rears with the existing fill, which would give me a half-load. I would think that half-loading would give me adequate weight and also maximize side-to-side stability. Comments?

Thanks - Jay

DAP · Nov 28, 2005

Jay, let's put it this way ... if someone were to take the time and give you the actual physics and the associated math, the outcome would still be something like this once translated into english: it's amazing how easy it is to roll a machine (CUT, UT, SCUT, etc.) ... especially with a front end loader.

There are some threads from a year or so ago that had links to some video released by the U of Michigan (I think) .. they had some NHollands rigged to run remotely and rolled them every which way from Sunday...

Bottom line, get a bi-directional tilt meter (lateral AND vertical) set your limit of comfort (mine is about 11 degrees) and stick to it.

Or , get used to suckin your shorts up into your throat.

There are MANY MANY variables waiting to test us all while we are using these machines ... and understanding of as many as possible will keep the right side up.

/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

simonmeridew · Nov 28, 2005

Jay:
There is probably no hard and fast answer to your question about the propensity to tipping. An example to this would be when I used to mow with a sickle bar mower--a lot of weight off the side of my Ford 8N tractor, on a steep side hill, if I put the sickle bar on the uphill side as I mowed, the weight of it way over to the right uphill side would actually stabilize and make the tractor less "inclined" to tip over downhill--it would actually pull the tractor into the hill. But if I went around and happened to mow a steep sidehill with the sickle bar pointed downhill, that uphill tire would ominously float along till I hit a little bump then whoa I'm airborne!
The same thing would happen with your backhoe: working uphill with the hoe on a sidehill would tend to pull the tractor into the hill making it more stable, but when you swing the arm around back then downhill, wow! is this tractor light or what!
That's just if you're not moving. Driving along with the hoe in the air and hitting a hole with one of the rear(especially the downhill one)tires will definitely increase your pucker power.
I would absolutely get both rears filled to capacity with chloride or equivalent; don't have one filled and the other not.
As was suggested get yourself an "inclineometer" as a guide but don't take it for gospel. You will develop a "feel" for tractor stability by hours of use and this "sixth sense" will guide you, but be conservative. This same "feel" will also guide you in thick or deep mud or snow and tell you that "one more foot further and you're stuck". Hope this helps
simonmeridew

kubota_man · Nov 28, 2005

No Matter if you have a tip-o-meter or not FASTEN YOUR SEATBELT! Many folks get killed each year from tractor roll overs. The rops and seat belt will save your life.http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/face/

grandad · Nov 28, 2005

In addition to the others' comments, I'd recommend you either fill both tires fully (which is about 20% air/80% filler) or not at all. Having them each 50% filled is not recommended, for at least a couple of reasons. 1) You can get a 1/2 full tire sloshing around in road gear enough to cause serious vibration or stability problems. 2) The interior of the rim will be partially exposed to air, adding to the chances for corrosion - depending on what the fill substance is, of course.

Filled tires plus your Woods BH may add up to more weight than is recommended for your rear axle, but lots of folks do it without problems. Removable wheel weights would be an alternative, but they aren't cheap.

rdsaustintx · Nov 29, 2005

Prologue: I had double hernia surgery two weeks ago. Tonight I stumble in and read this...

( Or , get used to suckin your shorts up into your throat.)

I laughed. Hard. Waddya know - Now my shorts are in my throat /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Russell in Texas

RayH · Nov 29, 2005

Im not a believer in inclinometers. I think there are too many variables to say there is a set degree that the tractor will roll. My backyard is on the side of a hill. The first thing I did when I got my 3130 and my BX23 was go to the steepest part of the hill, approach it with caution, always keep an escape route down hill and mentally rehearse the rollover in my head, incase I do start to go over, there wont be panic and I can steer immediately into the roll and drop the implements. If you want, have someone (large) hold on to a tow strap tied to the ROPS for security. This is really the only way you will know what you can and cant do with your particular tractor and land. It also gives you that feel for when to stop that most people dont get until its too late. Better to get that feeling in a controlled situation than a surprise situation.

SkyPup · Nov 29, 2005

Tipping is real easy, you don't want your family's last vision of you to be under your rig.....

Bob_Skurka · Nov 29, 2005

( Tipping is real easy, you don't want your family's last vision of you to be under your rig..... )

This is the best answer I have seen so far.

And I will second his opinion.

With a FEL you can easily tip a tractor on perfectly flat land. Make sure you properly balance your tractor with appropriate ballast (liquid in the tires and/or weight on the 3pt) Keep the ROPS up, keep the seatbelt on, just get into the habit so it is second nature. And do something about the rear tire that is unballasted.

CT_Tree_Guy · Nov 29, 2005

Tractor tipping is very easy - the normal gratuity is 10% of the price of the tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Now back to serious matters: Every vote counts, so one more vote for WEAR YOUR SEAT BELT AT ALL TIMES! (Except w/ROPS down of course). As another poster said, make it a habit, like the very first thing you do when you climb in. Even if you're on flat ground, in your driveway, or "just moving the tractor".

After 560 hours on ALL kinds of terrain (I use mine in my tree business so I'm all over the place), the best pointers I could give you are (excuse the repeats from other posts):

<ul type="square"> The obvious, go low and slow with heavy loads, operate at a sensible speed in general.

Be constantly ready to drop the loader as she starts to go over, and she will.

As was said, watch out for sudden changes in ground level, rocks, stumps, soft spots, loose soil or rocks, especially when you're already a little tippy.

Be extra careful operating on wet, icy or snowy surfaces, especially on inclines.

Pull only from the drawbar, never higher up on the tractor.

Watch the loader at all times when you're raising it or lowering it. Sounds obvious, but several times I've been looking backwards, while backing up, with my hand pressing down on the loader control without realizing it, turned around, and whoa baby! the loader is way up in the air. I don't do that as much any more /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Going up hills/inclines BACKWARDS can help with a big heavy load - hard to flip over backwards that way.

Try to avoid traversing hills; go straight up and down if you can. Ags are better on sidehills, or so they say.

Be on guard for things that can happen quickly; load shifting, losing or dumping a load thereby suddenly changing your balance; outside forces suddenly acting on your tractor.

Be extra careful at night, even with good lights.

No riders ever, which can be a big distraction, which could lead to all kinds of things, including tipping.

Get as much ballast as you can, as low as you can. I don't fill my tires for the reasons in "5030 skidder pics", but a great way to get weight down low is to add a backhoe subframe, even if you don't have a backhoe, and add a nice thick skidplate down there, one shot across the whole bottom. I'm going 5/8" or 3/4". Kills two birds.

Maybe look into wheel weights instead of filling tires, maybe make your own - lots of posts on that. Wheel weights might save you some HP (no sloshing); tire repairs cheaper, easier.

Here's a biggie: Make sure you're in 4WD (if you've got it) BEFORE going down an incline if you think your rear tires are going to run out of traction in 2WD (especially with a load on front). Once you've started sliding, things happen fast. Sure, you can drop the loader if you don't panic, but things happen fast, and god knows what might slide into, or off of.

And lastly: If you're not sure about something, or get a bad feeling before doing it, don't do it, or try like h*** not to. (My "little bell" rule).

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I've never used a tilt-meter, that's just me. If I don't feel comfortable at a certain angle, I don't think looking at a tilt-meter is going to make me feel all that much better about it, and might just be a distraction. Plus, it has been mentioned that it might give a false sense of security. The meter doesn't know that you're about to sink into the ground, or hit a hole, or a rock. I might get one just to know what angle I'm at, out of curiosity, and MAYBE to help convince me that I can push the envelope from where I'm at now, but that's about it. I don't think I'd consult it like a tachometer.

Finally, just obey the laws of physics as best you know how, there's no getting around them.