TractorGuy
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2013
- Messages
- 4,591
- Location
- N. FL
- Tractor
- John Deere 4310 CUT, Ford New Holland 575E Industrial Backhoe, John Deere F725 Front Mount Mower
May have been posted but this was the first I saw of this video.
Tractor Hacking
- Thread starter TractorGuy
- Start date
- Views: 4318
mddorange
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2014
- Messages
- 3,357
- Location
- Guin, AL
- Tractor
- 2014 Kubota L3200 DT w/LA524 FEL, Loaded rear tires, LP RCR 1860 5' Cutter, LP RTA 1258 5' Tiller, LP PFL 2042 Pallet Forks w/60" Extensions, KK BB60 Box Blade, KK PHD-12" Post Hole Digger
Very interesting video.
Having been in IT for most of my life, I know first hand about hackers. Sometimes it makes great sense to have the ability to work on and modify software. Sometimes not so much.
Having been in IT for most of my life, I know first hand about hackers. Sometimes it makes great sense to have the ability to work on and modify software. Sometimes not so much.
OP
TractorGuy
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2013
- Messages
- 4,591
- Location
- N. FL
- Tractor
- John Deere 4310 CUT, Ford New Holland 575E Industrial Backhoe, John Deere F725 Front Mount Mower
Auto manufacturers have been required to make factory diagnostic equipment and manuals available for years. Nothing says they have to make it affordable but they cannot disallow the general public from the knowledge and equipment to diagnose and repair their own vehicles. They also cannot void warranties due to modifications unless they can PROVE the modification caused the failure. No reason the Ag market should be any different.
mddorange
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2014
- Messages
- 3,357
- Location
- Guin, AL
- Tractor
- 2014 Kubota L3200 DT w/LA524 FEL, Loaded rear tires, LP RCR 1860 5' Cutter, LP RTA 1258 5' Tiller, LP PFL 2042 Pallet Forks w/60" Extensions, KK BB60 Box Blade, KK PHD-12" Post Hole Digger
Remember when the current refrigerant first came out to replace freon and they said that it would not be sold to anyone without a HYVAC license. Well look at stores now, everyone is selling the same cans as before.
RandyT
Elite Member
JD is treating their system like Microsoft. You own the computer but we only give you a license to use our software. You are not allowed under agreement to access, modify or change our software without our permission is how they are looking at it. The are treating it like Tesla does their customers. Can't use salvaged parts without having Tesla program the computer to work with that part. Or if somebody purchases a salvage Tesla, Testa will not allow use of their supercharger stations, or support system without paying like $1500 for a possible dealer recertification. Which there have been cases where Tesla has turned off features on owners cars because of non certification such as the supercharging stations and the boost feature.
dnw64
Veteran Member
Somehow the automakers have been forced into that corner, probably by lobbyists.
Makers of off-road equipment makers (apparently) have not. Yet.
But I am willing to bet that, as Randy implies, when you buy one of their tractors you are signing an agreement that states you are only buying the right to use the software, and agree that only those authorized to do so will have access to it. You are not forced to sign the agreement, but you will not be taking a tractor off the lot until you sign.
Makers of off-road equipment makers (apparently) have not. Yet.
But I am willing to bet that, as Randy implies, when you buy one of their tractors you are signing an agreement that states you are only buying the right to use the software, and agree that only those authorized to do so will have access to it. You are not forced to sign the agreement, but you will not be taking a tractor off the lot until you sign.
vvanders
Platinum Member
Yeah, cars were mandated to use OBD2 due to emissions control requirements(CARB and the like define OBD2 spec) so you can thank them for the ability to poke at your car over that interface.
For what it's worth Kubota/Kioti and a few others do the same thing with their engines. Very little difference in the mechanical bits across ~10HP, most of it is mapping in software. There's efficiencies to be gained in standardizing on one physical size and selling more tractors than if you had bespoke engines for each size. However you mess with that and you won't get any warranty support.
As for Tesla disabling supercharging I'm sorry but I totally understand that one. As someone who spends a fair amount of time with an oscilloscope all it takes is for you to backfeed the HVDC down one of the control signal paths and you'll cause $$$ damage to their infrastructure. Seen plenty of people hacking on Teslas and most of them are a walking darwin award. No protection, poking at bus bars and other stupid things. EVs are different than wrenching on a traditional car, closer to working on something where the engine is running and/or could be running in a split-second. For instance all you need to do is touch one of the door handles to flip the HVDC relay and energize the entire power bus.
Nominal pack is in the 450VDC/1200A range which will happily kill you if you look at it funny and brush against something you shouldn't.
For what it's worth Kubota/Kioti and a few others do the same thing with their engines. Very little difference in the mechanical bits across ~10HP, most of it is mapping in software. There's efficiencies to be gained in standardizing on one physical size and selling more tractors than if you had bespoke engines for each size. However you mess with that and you won't get any warranty support.
As for Tesla disabling supercharging I'm sorry but I totally understand that one. As someone who spends a fair amount of time with an oscilloscope all it takes is for you to backfeed the HVDC down one of the control signal paths and you'll cause $$$ damage to their infrastructure. Seen plenty of people hacking on Teslas and most of them are a walking darwin award. No protection, poking at bus bars and other stupid things. EVs are different than wrenching on a traditional car, closer to working on something where the engine is running and/or could be running in a split-second. For instance all you need to do is touch one of the door handles to flip the HVDC relay and energize the entire power bus.
Nominal pack is in the 450VDC/1200A range which will happily kill you if you look at it funny and brush against something you shouldn't.
/pine
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2009
- Messages
- 12,450
The same can be said for any software...unless it made available with a GNU license...
The only person(s) that owns a script/software is the person that actually wrote it (and or the source code)...or the contract holder that employed a second party coder...
It's hardly just M$FT....it's any company that produces any software products or applications....when anyone downloads an app to their phone...they have agreed to abide by the usage rules...no average/regular user owns any software regardless of how much they might of spent for it...The average retail price of "PhotoShop" is about $750-$800...but all that buys you is a copy of the program and the right to use it as per the agreement you have to agree to or not use the program...
vvanders
Platinum Member
It's a nitpick but GNU doesn't have a monopoly on open source licensing, Apache, MIT and others are just as common.
You'll also find Microsoft a different company today, they're doing a ton of stuff in the open source space and mostly moving to SaaS. Heck take a look at VSCode and the like, wide open source and totally free compared to what Visual Studio used to run.
You'll also find Microsoft a different company today, they're doing a ton of stuff in the open source space and mostly moving to SaaS. Heck take a look at VSCode and the like, wide open source and totally free compared to what Visual Studio used to run.
/pine
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2009
- Messages
- 12,450
Sorry, you are correct and it's not really a nitpick...in a lot of cases everyone (including the big corps) gains by open source software not just the end users...but you know as well as I that it didn't start out that way...I think corps like 'DE' will sooner or later realize this...
