Torque, HP, Speed, and 4wd on Grand L's vs. others

[icat]

Torque, HP, Speed, and 4wd on Grand L\'s vs. others

As many of you have read, I'm looking hard at the L3130 HST for my 18 acres. No major hills, just some gentle rolling terrain. Only issues are the 1 to 1.5 inch Huische trees that need to be cleared. The trees are not too thick and you can generally drive between them in all areas.

I had based my selection of the L3130 HST on a relatives older Ford 3910 tractor. He owns 50 acres in the same area so he has the identical issues to confront. I had him cut out an acre of my pasture with his tractor so we could begin building a home. His tractor handled everything fine. When I asked him the HP rating on the tractor he told me that the Ford 3910 had 30 HP. So when I began looking for a tractor I set this as my goal horsepower.

Last night I decided to look the Ford 3910 up on the Internet to comapre the physical size of the two tractors. When I did I found out the the 3910 has 45 HP, not 30! So all my research over the last week was in comparing apples to oranges. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Now comes the questions. How does an older technology 45HP 2wd 4500 lb tractor compare to a newer technology 32HP 4wd 3300 lb tractor in terms of work? I've spent several hours pouring over the spec sheets on the Grand L series and I've discovered that HP is not relative to the top speed of the tractor as the L3130 HST is FASTER than all the others. So top speed isn't an issue. The PTO HP is lower by far on the L3130 HST, but it's enough to pull a 5' cutter (and many of you swear it will pull a 6'). So the maximum size cutter I think I would want to use is covered. Will the lighter weight of the L3130 HST allow it too accomplish as much as the older Ford 3910? Should I be looking at a different tractor with more HP? How do I compare these two tractors in terms of work and not numbers?

Sorry for the long post - but this has really got me confused and you guys are the only base of knowledge I have (scary huh!).

 

[Bird]

Re: Torque, HP, Speed, and 4wd on Grand L\'s vs. others

Tough questions, Keith; don't know whether there's really a definitive answer or not. I think most of us run out of traction before we run out of power. So you say you're comparing a 4500 lb. tractor to a 3300 lb. tractor. Obviously, the heavier tractor has the advantage. But then you have to consider the tires; do they both have the same type tread to get the same traction? Are the tires on the heavier tractor loaded with fluid? Or are there wheel weights on it? In other words, if that's the base weight, you might add weight to the lighter tractor to compensate to some degree. And you're comparing 45hp, 2WD, to 32hp, 4WD. I think the concensus of opinion is that 4WD will give the equivalent of a 25% increase in power, so now we're comparing 45hp to 40hp equivalent.

According to tractortips.com, the 3910 is actually 47 engine hp, 43 PTO hp, and 35 drawbar hp. Are we getting closer together or farther apart? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

And the 3910 is a manual transmission (slight edge for max power) vs. the L3130 HST transmission (slight edge for max speed in changing speed and direction).

So . . ., does this further confuse you? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Now, strictly my personal opinion, I think you can get as much work done with the L3130 as you can with the 3910, and I think that's probably all the tractor you need, but an even larger Grand L series tractor will do the work quicker and easier.

 

[icat]

Re: Torque, HP, Speed, and 4wd on Grand L\'s vs. others

Good info Bird. I just relooked at my notes and you are correct. The 3910 is rated at 47hp. What is Drawbar HP? I saw this as well when I looked the 3910 up, but I had no idea what it means. I did see where Bush Hog's Box Blades are rated 35HP 4wd and 50HP 2wd. Is this what you are refering to when you mention the 25% increase in power from 4wd to 2wd? Does this "measurement" only work with non-powered items like a box blade, or can we make the same comparison to a PTO powered item like a cutter?

 

[Casimir]

Re: Torque, HP, Speed, and 4wd on Grand L\'s vs. others

icat:

Well, you are right -- the amount of "work" your tractor can do is a product of all of the things you listed - Hp, torque, speed, and 4WD - I would add transmission and gearing to the list.

I am not familiar with "Huische" trees, but a 30 Hp machine with a 5 foot cutter should breeze through 1 to 1.5 inch saplings like they were not even there. Whether you choose a gear or hydro transmission, the key is to set your engine rpm at whatever speed is needed to produce 540 RPM on your PTO, and then adjust your ground speed by gear selection and/or pressure on your hydro pedal, which regulates ground speed, not engine rpms. By experimenting a little, you will soon figure out which gear gives you the best combination of good cutting ability and ground speed. Start slow, in a low gear, and gradually step up in gear or hydro pressure until you feel the cutter bogging down or not cutting cleanly (or you get uncomfortable with moving too fast /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) and then back off a little.

The Grand L3130 should be able to do almost anything the older Ford 3910 will do, but for some tasks you may just have to "take smaller bites." The 4WD will aid greatly in traction, especially for FEL operations and in muddy or snow conditions. Even with 4WD and loaded rear tires, you probably will find yourself losing traction before you stall the engine, unless you are in a higher gear.

Top speed is only useful if you will be moving long distances on smooth roads. Once again, it is a product of gearing and Hp. A small Hp machine may have the same or higher top speed than a larger Hp machine, but you usually won't be doing any "work" while traveling at top speed - just moving from one location to another. Hope this helps. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Good luck and let us know what you decide. The L3130 is a great machine, and should handle what you have described with ease. What other tasks will you be needing to do?

 

[Casimir]

Re: Torque, HP, Speed, and 4wd on Grand L\'s vs. others

Bird types faster than I do, I guess - but he also made some different points /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[icat]

Re: Torque, HP, Speed, and 4wd on Grand L\'s vs. others

Casimir, thanks for the info. Your suggestions are in line with my thinking. It's one of those deals where you begin to doubt your decisions based on your own limited knowledge. Then when a parameter changes on the base calculation you begin to wonder if you need to toss everything and start over again. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I did forget to mention that the L3130 HST I'm considering has R4's that are not filled. The Ford 3910 we're comparing it to has R1's that are filled.
I was aware of the top speed NOT being a good measurement of work, but I mentioned it because it does indicate the tractors ability to move itself against it's own weight. I just found it interesting that the L3130 HST was the fastest of the line. Of course we're talking less than 1 mph across the board so it's not much. It also stands to reason that you'll lose traction before anything else, as ANY tractor can do more work than the mule/ox our ancestors used. And I might add that I'll most likely be too scared to run the tractor at top speed anyway!

 

[Bird]

Re: Torque, HP, Speed, and 4wd on Grand L\'s vs. others

Keith, I see in another post that the 3910 has R1 tires loaded and the L3130 will be R4 tires not loaded. so the L3130 is NOT going to have the traction of the 3910 at the rear wheels. The 4WD will compensate for this to some degree, but will probably still not have the pulling power of the 3910.

Yes, the box blade example is what I was talking about with the 25% increase in power, but no, it does not apply to PTO powered implements.

 

[icat]

Re: Torque, HP, Speed, and 4wd on Grand L\'s vs. others

Bird, I'm an old sports car guy myself and on the street wider is always better for traction. Of course now we're talking about dirt, so it stands to reason that some things will be different. Help me understand why the more narrow tire will not have as much grip as the wider tire. Is it the 'depth' of the lugs (I hope that's the right term) on the tires? Also, what gains will I see if I have the tires filled as opposed to just running with the box blade (550 lbs.) on the rear when I need more traction (like using the FEL). If I'm just mowing the pasture with the cutter what would necessitate the need for more traction?

Seems the more I learn the less I know! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[CTyler]

Re: Torque, HP, Speed, and 4wd on Grand L\'s vs. ot

Take my L3130 its #3300, now add the loader #850 and 72" bucket, then the 65" box blade #575, or the #1300 backhoe and the extra #2-300??? pounds of subframe that stays on the tractor all the time. Anyway that puts me at over #4700 either way. I have R4's and they are not filled.

The power/weight works out pretty good. Feathering the HST pedal you'll run out of traction digging with the FEL. However its pretty close, filling the rears might be the straw to change that.

Pulling the BB even overloaded and pushing dirt against the rear tires it still pulls it. Its working pretty good but its unstoppable.

That other tractor would run a bigger mower only because of the extra PTO HP. Having 4wd in damp, snowy, wet and/or muddy conditions is like night and day from 2wd. You'll run circles around that 47hp 2wd tractor.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Re: Torque, HP, Speed, and 4wd on Grand L\'s vs. others

Bird, my new L3830 has R4's unfilled. Already it can do hills that my International with R1's filled cannot do, and thats in 2 WD. Must be a geomerty thing. The International has 14.9's X 24's while the L3830 has 17.5 X 24's. The International has far more HP and outweighs the L3830 by at least 2500lbs if not more. The brochure from Kubota shows what I believe is a L3130 or L3430 pulling a ganged mower, easily in the 7' plus width range. I have found that with the L3830, when mowing thick, tall grasses with my 84" finnish mower, I just have to slow down some, to about 3 mph and then its back up to as fast as 7 mph which is rare because of the roughness of the terrain.

Torque ratings for the L30's, from the L3130 to the L5030 respectively. All are in ft lbs. 75.9, 79.9, 89.0, 107.8, 107.8, and finally 119.8 for the L5030. The L4330 and L4630 have the same engine and torque, just different injectors to give the more HP to the L4630. Rat...