Toolcat vs CUT

[radman1]

I know the tool cat weighs more than most CUT's but is it big enough for some dirt work? Enough lift capacity? Is traction good enough?
I have only seen one breifly several months ago until yesterday when I had the chance to examine one more closely. It was a 2006 C series. The tires seemed so small. The bucket is a little short in front and marginal in width. Is the boom strong enough if I tried to dig or push with the corner of the bucket? The single lift cylinder seemed kind of small. Anyone tried a bigger cylinder?

I just traded my 1998 873 bobcat for a used 2006 K series bobcat S300 skid steer today -power bobtach, A/C, heat, 2 speed, vertical lift, bucket postioning, sound deading package, rear weights, suspension seat, deluxe instrument panel etc. Maybe I shouldn't have put the 2 next to each other. Still the toolcat costs almost as much as a new loaded S300. Can the toolcat be a "little brother" or will it become the "cute little sister". The S300 wants a brother.

Will get a good test of the S300 this weekend. The cab is sooooo quiet compared to my 873. The Kubota engine is much quieter than the prior Duetz engine. The fan runs only when needed and often at slower speed depending on temp. The engine compartment and cab are sound deadened.

 

[UFM82]

Oh, you'll love the 300 over the 873. Most everything about it will be a major improvement over a 9 year old machine. The enginepower, hydraulic power and smoothness of the machine will be extremely noticeable. I truly think that the large frame machines we currently offer are the best large frame machines we've ever offered.

The Toolcat would make a great "little brother" to a 300. It won't dig like a skidloader as the geometry and functions are different but it will dig. We've dug a hole large enough to hide the machine in under an hour and have had no issues with durability. We've tried to damage the piece in simulated tests like prying up on concrete, stumps and the like and haven't made any messes yet. We don't abuse the machine as we know some out there will but anything can break if you really push it too hard. The D series machines can be equipped with larger 29" tires and that will increase ground clearance but lower wheel torque values.

The C series and now the D series addresses many of the issues with the first machines. Two-sections booms are much stronger than the early single piece boom, the linkage has changed to increase bucket rollback forces immensely, hydraulic controls, etc. They're great additions to a skidloader, particularly if you want to run on turf or improved surfaces without causing damage. I know of two gold course here that couldn't live without their Toolcats. I sold one of the members here his Toolcat (CJR pilot I think is his screen name) and he's been very happy with his. They are not a replacement for a skidloader but they are a great complement to it.

 

[radman1]

Thanks for the info. You know your products and I respect your advice. Have you heard any info on the 3 pt version of the toolcat?

 

[IslandTractor]

Your original question was about comparing at toolcat to a CUT. There are major differences. The CUT is optomized for working in fields and rough (but not steep) terrain. The Toolcat is designed for grounds maintenance and does not have nearly the traction of a CUT. The CUT can drag all manner of 3pt implements which is not true of the Toolcat. The Toolcat obviously has the skid steer like front implement set up but those implements (other than the bucket and grapple) are hydraulically powered so are much more expensive than the PTO powered rear implements on a CUT. Used PTO/3PT implements are common and often a bargain. Most skid steer hydraulically powered equivalents are pretty expensive new or used. Toolcat has the carryall capacity but no way to self load it. CUT forces you to drag a wagon but at least you can use the FEL to load.

The Toolcat sounds great for what it was designed to do but there really is not nearly much overlap in mission with a CUT at least if you want to be efficient and cost effective. I wouldn't want to drive a CUT around a university campus doing grounds maintenance or utility work and I wouldn't want to take a toolcat into a farm, brush or a rough pasture.

 

[tmarch]

"I wouldn't want to take a toolcat into a farm, brush or a rough pasture."
Does this mean it wouldn't handle the terrain, or that it wouldn't be durable enough for?
The reason I ask is that I own a ranch and I'm looking for something to put a post hole digger on, bank up water tanks and other light dirt work, and possibly a mower for weeds. I don't do any farming that would require pulling any implements so I'm considering the Toolcat. I've looked at a skid loader, but it's miles between windmills and a skid steer would have to be hauled to each location.
THANKS

 

[dsb5610]

tmarch,

I use my 'A' most of the time in fields/pastures. The ride on mine can be rough. The new 'D' version is supposed to ride much better. I was offered a test drive in the 'D' but I declined due to the lack of terrain at the dealership that would demonstrate any difference.

I've done what you describe on a larger scale. We used pickups to run between the water tanks to start the generators daily. Often times we would go to certain areas twice a day depending on the grazing rotation or if maintenance needed to be done on the waterers or fences. A portion of the trip was on gravel roads then the rest through the pastures. It was a rough ride through the pastures no matter what we were in. If we needed to do dirt work we would bring along a rubber tired end loader.

Without seeing your place and how it operates I couldn't offer a good recommendation other than to say you should have one brought out to use for few days. Even if it doesn't end up being the solution I think you'll appreciate what it can do.

dsb

 

[UFM82]

Let me address a few points. I went off track with the first reply as you mentioned skidloaders.

I tend to disagree with IslandTractor on a few points. The independant suspension of the Toolcat will definitely giove you a better ride in rough pastures than a rigid suspension on a CUT will. In fact, one of the places I take prospects is a field by our office that is heavily rutted and washboarded. The ride never fails to impress. Taking a small CUT across that terrain can result in back pain. LOL I would much rather run a Toolcat across a pasture than a tractor.

Another point is the self-loading ability. You point out that the Toolcat will not self-load, but then say that you can haul a wagon with a CUT and load it with the front end loader. Can you not do the same thing with a Toolcat? And haul additional items such as a shovel, fertilizer, fence posts, etc in the bed of the Toolcat, thus eliminating trips back to the barn for supplies?

I will give you ground on one point. The CUT with it's low gearing, large rear tires and weight distribution does lend itself very well to the implement-dragging duties. Pulling a disc or a bailer or some other tool can be tough with a Toolcat. And you are correct about attachments as well. I can buy a 6' Woods bushhog for under $1,000 while the Toolcat version costs over 5 times more. Advantage definitely goes to the CUT for that.

The Toolcat does offer a 3-point hitch adaptor but most 3-point items were designed to be pulled as opposed to pushed. A PTO was available on the Toolcats but it is not as of now on the D series machines. The machine did well with some 3-point items but the hydraulic load that some pieces placed upon the system caused overheating issues which are being addresses with the Ds. Eventually you'll see a machine with an easy-to-use hook-up that will work very well with most items.

The overlap is actually pretty good IMHO. Apart from dragging things, the Toolcat compares very favorably against a CUT, although they can be significantly more costly. However, equip a 56hp tractor with a cab/heat/air, 4 wheel drive, auxiliaries, stereo and the like and you'll be parallel with a Toolcat's cost. It all depends on what you truly need out of your machine. Of the municipalities who have bought Toolcats from us, I know that almost 75% were replacing a CUT with the Toolcat and so far have reported great success with the replacemnent. Productivity, operating costs and operator comfort have all been increased and the operators love the machine.

 

[IslandTractor]

My comparison was not to show that a CUT was superior to a Toolcat but rather to distinguish the strengths and weaknesses of each. I appreciate that the Toolcat is not completely out of place in a pasture but I do doubt that farming or replacing a CUT for field use was one of the design criteria used by Bobcat when developing the Toolcat. Municipal use and grounds maintenance (throw a few shovels in the back with some cement etc and go off to fix a problem with two workers) is certainly a major strength for the Toolcat. Snow plowing is also a strength as well as mowing groomed turf. I think that is what it was developed to do. Yes, it can run across a pasture and I have no doubt that with an independent suspension the ride will be nice. But once it is in the field it is really out of it's designed optimal work envelope which involves streets and groomed paths (look at the tires).

I'm not sure that there is a direct HP to HP correlation between CUT and Toolcat. My 41hp CUT FEL can lift as much as the Toolcat. In any case, a 50+hp CUT with cab, A/C etc can be had for more like $35-40K which I believe is substantially less than a Toolcat. A bush hog or mower can be had for less than $2K each for the CUT and I believe about double that for the TC. A CUT with a QA (almost all 50hp CUTs have QA) can run all the non high output skidsteer implements that the TC can too. The Toolcat definitely can do some things that the CUT cannot (two people etc) but it is not a good value when compared to a CUT for field tasks. Municipal and institutional grounds maintenance tasks is where the Toolcat shines.

 

[odleefs]

Hello,
My 56 HP C series TC was 31xxx out the door with cab/heat and ac, and all options (I do not have high flow, nor do I have the keyless console). I would think that a D series could be had for <40K, but let's let others who have done so verify this. The legend of the astronomical TC price always makes me laugh...

The lift of the tC is rated at 1500lbs, whereas tractors are typically rated via capacity but the lift capacity of the TC is way more than 1500 lbs (would guess ~2500 lbs). Consider also the cycle rate of the TC FEL, it flys whereas most tractors are anemic. That is where bucket work with the TC in loose dirt or gravel really shines.

I agree that the TC doesn't do everything perfectly, it just does most well. The pricing of Bobcat and hydraulic implements is pricey, but these instruments tend to hold their value relative to 3 point attachments. So alot of money in, with alot of money out ,is OK for me.

Steve

 

[theoshin]

being a former owner of a 85 hp 10,000lb tractor i will pipe in.

for pulling or dragging anything i will take the tractor - including pulling a mower in a pasture. they are built to run their pto's all day long dragging around 3pt attachments. cab, air cond, air ride seat and big tires equal better ride to me - let the tires run lower pressure for mowing. also could pull a bigger brushhog. for disking or ground prep for agriculture take the tractor. for pulling out a stuck vehicle, ect. the tractor. for everything else i take the tc. my new tractor cost the same as a new tc.