Toolcat Registration in New York State?

rownow · Jan 5, 2009

I'm trying to buy a Toolcat in New York State (private sale - no dealer). The NY DMV says the owner should have a "transferable registration" that they will sign over to me. The owner says he does not have a registration card.

The Toolcat does not have the "road package" (and therefore no license plate), so maybe this Toolcat does not have to be registered in NY?

Bottom line question is, "What documentation should the owner provide to establish his ownership?"

A few years down the road I will try to sell this Toolcat myself and I want to make sure I have the paper trail in order.

On related note, does Bobcat issue MCO (Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin) for Toolcats? One dealer told me YES and one dealer told me NO.

RickB · Jan 6, 2009

A bill of sale should provide sufficient proof of ownership for personal property not including motor vehicles, boats, trailers or snowmobiles in NY. Bobcat should be able to provide an MCO for the unit, but if there isn't a clear chain of proof of ownership from the original owner, it's meaningless. Unless you plan on using it for commercial work travelling on public highways (which requires a license plate in NY), I'd get a bill of sale and call it good.

DEWFPO · Jan 6, 2009

All I've got is crappy copy of a Bill-of-Sale. That's all I had for my tractor as well (but it was computer printed and easier to read). When I sold my tractor, the guy wanted paperwork as well and I gave him a bill-of-sale.

You would think there would be better paperwork tracking on equipment that costs so much. I guess they treat it like a big refrigerator or something. Just a piece of consumable equipment.

DEWFPO

George2615 · Jan 6, 2009

Just an FYI.
A friend of mine bought a used Bobcat (Here in NY State) for his own personal use and wouldn't be using it on the road. He knew the previous two owners as legitimate business people. He received a bill of sale showing the serial number, make, and model of it. He used it for about a year and about six months ago the State Police knocked on his door and asked him if they could look at his Bobcat and if he had a bill of sale. He said OK and showed them the BOS. They checked the serial number and told him they were confiscating it because it was on their STOLEN list. He lost what he spent on it. Fortunately they didn't arrest him for possession of stolen property and they did trace it back through the previous two owners who also had no idea it was stolen.
BUYER BEWARE
I'm not saying the Toolcat you are looking at is stolen just try to trace its origin back to the selling dealer before buying.

kthompson · Jan 6, 2009

Kind of makes you wonder how they found it. Two previous owners had to keep great records but when it was bought first after being stolen, was the thief dumb enough to keep serial number records and who he sold it to? Or did it get picked up by a dealership when in for repair?

This is thread is showing why there should be a data base of serial numbers that anyone could check before buying at least one where stolen machines could be registered.

jmfox · Jan 6, 2009

Last I checked the toolcat used for private use (not for hire) like snow plowing is not considered a vehicle, so it is not subject to V&T laws. Sort of like your lawn tractor. If you are using commericially, you are subject ot V&T laws, but there is no category to register it.

jmf

rownow · Jan 6, 2009

The NY State Police would not tell me if the serial number of the machine was on their list of stolen property. But they offered to send a trooper to the seller's home to look at the machine and run the serial number.

I suppose the police have a reason for doing it that way.

timm9 · Jan 6, 2009

Very interesting... Both my TC's under California law are exempt and legal (with road kit) to run on public streets without a license plate. The same is true for my W11B Loader. Flashing lights and reflective "triangle" placard is all I need. I did not receive a "registration" at the time of purchase.

Anyone looking at a used Bobcat can call the corporate offices and they do maintain a list of stolen equipment. A few years back I found a TC for sale on the east coast and was on the verge of flying back to buy it but there was something that was "eating' at me. I called corporate and discovered that the person advertising the TC did not have it in his possession. Turns out the TC was actually sitting on a dealer's lots many miles away and the "seller" actually took all the info including the serial number off the dealers ads.

Every piece of equipment I have ever bought or sold was via a standard Bill of Sale.

George2615 · Jan 7, 2009

kthompson said:
Kind of makes you wonder how they found it. Two previous owners had to keep great records but when it was bought first after being stolen, was the thief dumb enough to keep serial number records and who he sold it to? Or did it get picked up by a dealership when in for repair?

This is thread is showing why there should be a data base of serial numbers that anyone could check before buying at least one where stolen machines could be registered.

I don't know how far back they went past the 2 previous owners or whether they caught the actual thief. I also don't know how they got the tip to check his serial number. Maybe the original owner or a friend who knew it was stolen just happened to drive by and saw it sitting there. All I know is he would have to sue the previous owner to try and get his money back then he would have to sue the guy he got it from and so forth back to the original thief. I do know the State Police have some sort of database of stolen construction equipment because my neighbor is a trooper and I asked him.