Timing issue

[ENTS]

My 2230 has always shook vilolently (to me) on shut off. It also idles rough. Now my 30 yr. old log haul truck shuts down gracefully, so does my TC40D New holland and my 933 Cat., purrrrfect. So, what gives with this little diesel in the 2230? Are there, is there, a timing problem? Fuel shut off solenoid bad (is there one)? Any insite would be helpfull.

Later,

 

[leonz]

My 2230 has always shook vilolently (to me) on shut off. It also idles rough. Now my 30 yr. old log haul truck shuts down gracefully, so does my TC40D New holland and my 933 Cat., purrrrfect. So, what gives with this little diesel in the 2230? Are there, is there, a timing problem? Fuel shut off solenoid bad (is there one)? Any insite would be helpfull.

Later,

AH, yes!!!!!, the injection pump timing has to be returned to Zero T.D.C.,on the number one cylinder. thats always been your issue.

 

[diesel466]

AH, yes!!!!!, the timing has to be returned to Zero T.D.C.,
on the number one cylinder. thats always been your issue.

Please explain where you got this information from !!

 

[ENTS]

And how to do it. I've changed the timing on gas engines but I'm at a lose on diesel.

Later,

 

[montelatici]

And how to do it. I've changed the timing on gas engines but I'm at a lose on diesel.

Later,

I think you will need a Snap-On MT480 or equivalent and the appropriate probe (that replaces the glow plug) and which detects the exact point of ignition. But then it gets complicated because I once talked to the mechanic at the dearlership and he said that you need shims to ****** or advance the timing. This was some time ago so there might be an electronic way to adjust the injection timing.

 

[diesel466]

Leonz keeps telling everyone these engines need timing to be set back to T.D.C . But timing was never that or is it now? I have never seen any that ever were. So hopfully he will share that info with us.

 

[lakeridge]

The engines in the BX tractors are rubber mounted and they will vibrate and rattle around a lot more than larger diesel engines and chassis mounted engines. Two ways to check the timing, diesel timing light that checks the fuel line pressure pulse and spill timing method. If the engine has never been touched I suspect you will find that the engine is properly timed. I would also confirm the condition of your motor mounts.

 

[radioman]

Leonz keeps telling everyone these engines need timing to be set back to T.D.C . But timing was never that or is it now? I have never seen any that ever were. So hopfully he will share that info with us.

I agree here. It appears he never did a timing setback to TDC on a BX model. He might have done it on a larger diesel, and other brands, but no hard facts on a BX. No details given. No proof it been done on a BX engine and it runs fine if adjusted to TDC on cylinder 1.

I hope you don't take it personally leonz- There MUST be a reason why kubota does it on the BX and the BX models is the only one that does the shaking thing when shutting off compared to its next size up the B series. The B runs smoother and quieter, so why not the BX ? there MUST be a reason. emissions?! maybe to a small degree....:confused3::2cents:

 

[leonz]

I was told by a gentleman that is and owns one of the largest kubota engine rebuilders plus other engines in the Unites States that "HESE ENGINES DO NOT RATTLE OR VIBRATE EVER!!!!!! under any cicumstance.

With Kubota engines its a matter of shims, with Duetz engines its a matter of positioning the injection pump in the engine housing to properly locate it via the timing marks on the engine housing and bolt it into place.

If you want shop manuals for your engines I can and will tell you where to obtain them.

IF you really want to know how disgusted I got yesterday I had a discussion with a multi line dealer that handles orange


NO it was not Art White or Neil Messick!!



and I asked him why Kubota insists on installing delivery pumps in these tractors. HE SAID that the injection pumps were not capable of pulling fuel from the tanks. I could not believe IT!!! Then I started getting double talk about how inefficient the injection pumps and thats why they needed the delivery pumps (ARRRGGGHHH!!!!) were after I told him I worked on these things for a living. He kept dominating the conversation and I quit trying to explain things and I walked out.

In the 22 years I worked on indirect injection diesels I never required delivery pumps from the tank to the injection pump as we used 2 wire reinforced hydraulic hose or steel fuel lines from the tank to the injection pump.

The 3 cylinder duetz engines used in IR compressors are an excellent example of perfection as the tanks are below the engine in the right fender well AS the engine cooling intake screen is directly above it in the roof.

They never rattle or bang or smoke or have rough idle from this as the fuel flow is not restricted due to a change injection pump timing


Bleeding them is a simple issue and then the injection pump pulls fuel from the tank BELOW THE ENGINE with zero issues with a steel reinforced fuel hose.




Lying to me, guarantees you wont see a dime from my wallet -which is why I no longer do business with a certain heating oil company locally-especialy when I was told I needed 2 new oil burners because parts were no longer available for the 2 previous Reillo oil burners I have owned.




"Simple physics involving pressure gradients and liquids are only affected by a hose that will collapse under suction and must be kept pressurised"

If the grade of hose they use is poor and not reinfoced OF COURSE its going to collapse from the pressure gradient created by the suction of the injection pump.

The delivery pump pushes the fuel into to keep the bore I.D., open thats all it does.


WHy do you think that when one of our orange owner members finds one of "thier" zip ties "too" tight on the fuel line choking it the tractor does not work???????????????? The injection pump is sucking the hose to the point of total collapse due to the RESTRICTION!! Thse delivery pumps are simply passive pumps as they would blow the fuel hose apart otherwise !!


As President Reagan said so well "Trust But Verify" .

 

[leonz]

I agree here. It appears he never did a timing setback to TDC on a BX model. He might have done it on a larger diesel, and other brands, but no hard facts on a BX. No details given. No proof it been done on a BX engine and it runs fine if adjusted to TDC on cylinder 1.

I hope you don't take it personally leonz- There MUST be a reason why kubota does it on the BX and the BX models is the only one that does the shaking thing when shutting off compared to its next size up the B series. The B runs smoother and quieter, so why not the BX ? there MUST be a reason. emissions?! maybe to a small degree....:confused3::2cents:

The injection pump timing is advanced on the late model engineds because of the displacement placing them in the EPA "Lawn Mower" category The Kubota 2 cylinder engines in our transport buggies which were OEM Kubota 2 wheel drive farm tractors were never changed BECAUSE they were equiped with catalytic converters!!! THIS IS WHY THE TIMING IS CHANGED TO avoid the cost of installing a catalytic converter on the exhaust of these LAWN MOWER engines.

 

[diesel466]

The injection pump timing is advanced on the late model engineds because of the displacement placing them in the EPA "Lawn Mower" category The Kubota 2 cylinder engines in our transport buggies which were OEM Kubota 2 wheel drive farm tractors were never changed BECAUSE they were equiped with catalytic converters!!! THIS IS WHY THE TIMING IS CHANGED TO avoid the cost of installing a catalytic converter on the exhaust of these LAWN MOWER engines.

What kubota or any other diesel engine have you seen the timing set to 0 tdc? The z1100 kubota engine was a small two cylinder engine and the timing spec on it is 24 degrees B.T.D.C ? Please explain.

 

[ENTS]

So, putting the debate aside--I either live with the shake and rattle or move to the B series. I cringe every time I shut this thing down. I feel I'm doing some irreparable damage to this little engine.

later

 

[radioman]

So, putting the debate aside--I either live with the shake and rattle or move to the B series. I cringe every time I shut this thing down. I feel I'm doing some irreparable damage to this little engine.

later

i know what you mean about cringing.... however I have over 500 hrs on BX now and no issues. I expect many more ....

 

[brain55]

No offense Leonz, but put the crack pipe down. I have worked on many Duetz and Kubota engines. If the tank is below the injection pump they all have lift pumps. Every Duetz F3L1011(F) that I have ever worked on has had a lift pump even in an IR compressor. Actually every diesel engine I have worked on that the was not gravity fed had a lift pump.

There is no way the injection timing is set at TDC on a BX. In order to defend your position on this you need to post the PDF of the manual showing this. Every Kubota engine I have worked on the timing has been approx. 24-28 degrees BTDC, and I have worked on hundreds of them over the last 23 years. Now I can see adjusting them to the FI mark on the flywheel which is 24-28 degrees BTDC but never to TDC, in fact even if you removed all of the shims under the pump I doubt you can get it to TDC. I think you got your terminology crossed somewhere. I think somebody said they zeroed the timing and what they meant was that they zeroed it to the proper timing not to 0 degrees TDC. Most Kubota engines I have dealt with had the timing retarded a few degrees and needed a shim or two removed to bring it back to the proper timing. I have always spilled timed Kubota's, I have tried doing it with a pulse inducer on an injection line with a timing light and always felt more comfortable with spill timing.

Brian

I just reread my post. Correction, you would need to add a bunch of shims to get it to TDC, not remove them.

 

[diesel466]

I believe the shake is from your engine being mounted in the small rubber mounts. I just do not want someone setting the timing to Leonz suggestions and be very disapointed with the results. Your timing could be checked but I really doubt it is off. It was never set to 0 tdc and you should not try to change it to that.

 

[radioman]

The injection pump timing is advanced on the late model engineds because of the displacement placing them in the EPA "Lawn Mower" category The Kubota 2 cylinder engines in our transport buggies which were OEM Kubota 2 wheel drive farm tractors were never changed BECAUSE they were equiped with catalytic converters!!! THIS IS WHY THE TIMING IS CHANGED TO avoid the cost of installing a catalytic converter on the exhaust of these LAWN MOWER engines.

So you think the EPA is classifying the BX as a lawnmower?! I googled for some sort of reference for that, I am coming up short on that. I wonder if someone could help me with that?

 

[leonz]

I uploaded or tried to upload the information about the EPA rules here awhile ago.

the links should still be here.

 

[rdsaustintx]

I always read leonz dissassociative walls of text. No information about the tractor model or specific knowledge if his theory applies to the OP question. This don't mean we don't love ya leonz, just not on your astral plain yet...

These tiny, hi-revving, rubber-mounted, three-cylinder diesels shake like an Elvis pelvis. Both at low idle and at shut down. Just seems to be the nature of the beast. But they are purring beasts at WOT. My BX is (by far, hands down) the most reliable and abuse-tolerant engine I have ever owned.

 

[leonz]

So you think the EPA is classifying the BX as a lawnmower?! I googled for some sort of reference for that, I am coming up short on that. I wonder if someone could help me with that?

Anything up to twenty five horsepower is in the EPA's Lawnmower class unfortunately.

Nonroad Diesel Equipment | US EPA
www.epa.govclean diesel

 

[leonz]

About Duetz lift pumps-the ones I had were piston type and only used to prime the injection pumps and are simply diesel fuel priming pumps to get the fuel to the injection pump and push fuel into the injection pump manually.

The piston priming pumps were only used to lift fuel to the the valley of the
V8-12 engines and the 2-6 cylinder inline and V4-16 engines we used and were locked in place by screwing them back into the barrel of the priming pump.