Tier 4 Killing Tractor PTO HP but Engine HP stays the same or higher?

[norshud]

I have a 2012 5055D with 55HP engine and 47HP PTO. I looked up the other day to see if they still offered the 5055D and they do not. They offer a 5055E in 2wd which would be the equivalent. It is rated at 57HP engine and 38HP PTO. I thought how could this PTO drop happen and then I thought of tier 4 which my tractor is not. How could the engine be 57HP with tier 4 and then I found the answer on JD website. "How is engine power measured?

John Deere engineering uses a precise procedure to measure engine-only power levels. The 97/68 EC standard is required in the European Union (EU) as an emission test, so there is some relation to the power a tractor has as a whole functioning unit. However, the procedure requires only that a production engine and radiator are used on a dynamometer test. This 97/68 EC standard is widely used in Europe for various regulations."

I now understand that the Engine is tested without tier 4 in place and the PTO has it in place. Wow a 19.14% decrease in usable power on this replacement for my tractor.

 

[daugen]

Norshud, is it a "real" drop in hp, which I didn't think Tier 4 did, or a paper/measurement drop? You say drop in "usable power" so that means "real" hp.
Hard to believe...particularly with a crossover tractor that gets close to the 50hp "next level" of implements; this would drop it way back. My Kubota is 57/50, very similar.

 

[norshud]

I am not a tractor expert but in my 5055D's case I can run my 10ft bush hog just fine but it grunts at times. I do not believe it would run it just fine with 38HP available. This would also be true of running a PTO generator that requires 2 pto HP per KW to make electricity. To me a PTO HP is PTO HP unlike engine HP to engine HP can vary but again I am just looking at the numbers and JD definition of how the test is done.

 

[daugen]

I am not a tractor expert but in my 5055D's case I can run my 10ft bush hog just fine but it grunts at times. I do not believe it would run it just fine with 38HP available. This would also be true of running a PTO generator that requires 2 pto HP per KW to make electricity. To me a PTO HP is PTO HP unlike engine HP to engine HP can vary but again I am just looking at the numbers and JD definition of how the test is done.

understood, pto should be "net", the end of the line before usage. If using the same test/same definitions the hp has dropped that much, yikes.

 

[norshud]

Take good care of those tier 3 tractors you own and make them outlast you. I love my 5055D more every day I visit the JD website. By the way you get to pay about $4,000 more for that less power than I paid.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I am not a tractor expert but in my 5055D's case I can run my 10ft bush hog just fine but it grunts at times. I do not believe it would run it just fine with 38HP available. This would also be true of running a PTO generator that requires 2 pto HP per KW to make electricity. To me a PTO HP is PTO HP unlike engine HP to engine HP can vary but again I am just looking at the numbers and JD definition of how the test is done.

Man, I couldn't imagine running my Mx10 with just 47 pto hp. :shocked: even with 69hp there are times I would like more!

 

[norshud]

I have had no problem running my 10 foot bush hog with my 5055D. The tractor has done a good job with anything I have put to it so far. I bought that tractor brand new from the dealer for $16,500 and I cannot imagine any other product that would give me more bang for the buck than this tractor has. I later added a JD canopy, front grill guard and 1,000 pounds of suite case JD weights and hanger bracket. The best part about this tractor is the fact it is a tractor not an electronic loaded machine. Mechanical fuel injection turbo charged 3 cylinder engine 2.9L. I hope to have it for as long as I live and then one of my sons have it. I also have a 2000 JD 4200 with a 420 loader I also purchased brand new. I have enjoyed this tractor but I just wish they would not make a "plastic tractor" . 15 years of sheltered life and all of the plastic is showing age with cracks or breaks. I like the thick metal on the 5055D of the fenders but it does have a plastic hood.

 

[daugen]

what I found interesting is that in looking at tractordata.com at old tractor specs, take an IH tractor,
80 drawbar horsepower, 105hp at the PTO. No mention of engine at all. No emission control either of course.
Brave new world.

I continue to wonder if the horsepower loss being discussed is a paper loss or a real loss. All these tractors are marketed and positioned against others from
Kubota, New Holland, Kioti, etc etc. You just can't drop that kind of power and stay in the game. Unless everyone else is doing the same thing. My understanding on the original spin for Tier IV was that power would actually be up, but so would complexity and consumables. Perhaps that's only DEF machines, I don't know.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I have had no problem running my 10 foot bush hog with my 5055D. The tractor has done a good job with anything I have put to it so far. I bought that tractor brand new from the dealer for $16,500 and I cannot imagine any other product that would give me more bang for the buck than this tractor has. I later added a JD canopy, front grill guard and 1,000 pounds of suite case JD weights and hanger bracket. The best part about this tractor is the fact it is a tractor not an electronic loaded machine. Mechanical fuel injection turbo charged 3 cylinder engine 2.9L. I hope to have it for as long as I live and then one of my sons have it. I also have a 2000 JD 4200 with a 420 loader I also purchased brand new. I have enjoyed this tractor but I just wish they would not make a "plastic tractor" . 15 years of sheltered life and all of the plastic is showing age with cracks or breaks. I like the thick metal on the 5055D of the fenders but it does have a plastic hood.

Well if you are satisfied that's all that matters. If money wouldn't have been a big concern of mine, I would have went to a 5115M but the price tag on the machine made me dizzy. I agree, for a tractor give me something as absolutely simple as possible. I do like the air seats and air conditioning but the electronic crap needs to stop.

 

[arlen4720]

I continue to wonder if the horsepower loss being discussed is a paper loss or a real loss.

The best source of information is the Nebraska Test Labs