Buying Advice tier 4 diesel

[indios]

: I am looking for used compact tractor, it has to be a tier 3 or less, I live far from any dealer and hear friends cry about regen, regen, and floating back to the dealer for repairs, WHEN DID TIER 4 start with compacts?[B I need some advice, and not picky, i'll take a JD or Kubota.

 

[jeff9366]

Tier IV emission standards require tractor manufacturers to add or revise pollution reduction technology on new tractors generating over 19 kW power = 25.4794 horsepower. Tier IV began phasing in during 2009, retail conversion was almost complete in 2013 when I bought my 'Tier IV' Kubota L3560. Old news in 2020.

Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) captures exhaust particulates (soot) in a ceramic matrix. When tractor engine runs sufficiently hot, accumulated particulates burn off periodically without operator intervention. If engine is not run continuously hot long enough to burn off particulates, diesel soot accumulates in the matrix. Once heavy soot accumulates in DPF the tractor forces soot clearance with the tractor parked and throttle open to about 2,200 rpm for about sixteen minutes, which makes the DPF REALLY HOT to burn off all accumulated soot. Burning off accumulated soot, either during operation or parked is called REGENERATION.

My Kubota regenerates routinely every 60 engine hours in warm Florida. 60 engine hours = 3,600 engine minutes.
Stationary regeneration, which is about 60% of my regenerations because I work in the woods, takes consistently 16 minutes in warm Florida.

16 / 3,600 = .0044 = .44% engine time used in stationary regeneration. (Less than 1/2 of 1%)

Tire wear and tire replacement will cause as many headaches and more expense than Tier IV emission technology for most long term compact tractor owners who read and comprehend their tractor's Operator's Manual.

 

[jeff9366]

Compact tractors used in residential applications such as lawn mowing, gardening and landscaping average sixty (60) engine hours of use per year.

That is ONE regeneration per YEAR.

The earth is not flat. The sky has not fallen. New tractor sales continue apace.


New tractors with less than 25.4794 horsepower are exempt from Tier IV requirements in the USA, but not in Europe where Tier V has been implemented.

A few light tractors, with small displacement engines yet 25-26 horsepower have been factory tuned to meet Tier IV requirements without a DPF. Low displacement tractor engines have to rev a little high to provide rated horsepower and meet Tier IV standards without a DPF.

GOOD VIDEO: Comparing Kubota's 26hp Compact Tractors - YouTube

 

[fried1765]

Compact tractors used in residential applications such as mowing, gardening and landscaping average sixty (60) engine hours of use per year.

That is ONE regeneration per YEAR.

The earth is not flat. The sky has not fallen. New tractor sales continue apace.


New tractors with less than 25.4794 horsepower are exempt from Tier IV requirements in the USA, but not in Europe.

A few light tractors, with small displacement engines, have been tuned to meet Tier IV requirements without a DPF. The engines have to rev pretty high to meet Tier IV standards.

GOOD VIDEO: Comparing Kubota's 26hp Compact Tractors - YouTube

Yeah, ..... but you neglected to mention to the OP that you live nearly on the doorstep of a Kubota dealer.
You have mentioned many times how comfortable that makes you feel.
Seems as though the OP's situation is quite different.

 

[jeff9366]

Completely true. Also true: regeneration has never been a problem on my 7-1/2 year old Tier IV tractor at 1,750 engine hours = 30 regenerations +/-.
I CAN READ. I FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS.


AND I think I explained alternatives to Tier IV fairly clearly.

We have no idea how powerful a tractor OP needs. A light tractor may serve him. Researching his prior posts, OP is in Ontario, Canada.

Messick's and my local Kubota dealer's history is that 90% of Tier IV problems are operator-error problems, not equipment problems.

: I am looking for used compact tractor, it has to be a tier 3 or less, I live far from any dealer and hear friends cry about regen, regen, and floating back to the dealer for repairs, WHEN DID TIER 4 start with compacts? I need some advice, and not picky, i'll take a JD or Kubota.

Would you concur that I answered the OP's one (1) question accurately?

 

[jaydee325]

According to the EPA website, there never were any tractors in the sub 75 hp category that had Tier 3 engines unless the manufacturer took advantage of some complex exceptions.

Yes, I'm aware of some sales brochures that stated the engines in some less than 75 hp tractors were Tier 3, but I believe those to be in error. I found 2 different brochures for the same tractor that contradicted each other (one said Tier 3, the other Tier 4 Interim!) You gota love those marketers!!

So, the only thing for sure is to look at the tractor and determine if it has exhaust after treatment (Diesel Particulate Filter, DPF or Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, DOC) and don't stress over the Tier designations.

 

[arcadelt]

According to the EPA website, there never were any tractors in the sub 75 hp category that had Tier 3 engines...

Hmmm, are you sure about that? I'm in Australia where Teir 4 has not yet been legislated. When I was looking at tractors, one was the New Holland Boomer 50. I wanted a cab and a backhoe. The Australian distributors could not guarantee that they US made backhoe would fit the local Tier 3 machine anymore because of possible design changes as a result of the US moving from Tier 3 to Tier 4. I ended up with a Kioti CK4220, which is definitely Tier 3, although not sure if that engine has ever been available in the States.

 

[ericm979]

There's a Tier 4 requirement for diesels under 25.5hp but it allows more pollutants per horsepower than over 25.5hp. It's lax enough that it can be met without DPF or DOC.

Above 75hp there's another level that's stricter per hp, and that's where the manufacturers are using DEF.

Except for a few problematic models, the over 25.5 and under 75hp Tier 4 systems are pretty reliable. Operate according to the manufacturer's directions and enjoy fewer cancer causing pollutants.

 

[duramaxsky]

If you can get by with a 25 HP tractor do it. Tier 4 is a nightmare. Have you noticed all the truck fires in the last 10 years compared to before. That is what causes them. The Regen gone wrong. At some point every DPF must be replaced or baked out. Big cost. The engines on the non tier 4 are mechanical injection. They must be electronic for tier 4 to work. Electronic is less reliable especially if not used every day and if you get bad fuel. Again big repair costs. I wanted a John Deere 2038 but got a 2025R instead for that reason. I drove a truck for over 1.5 million miles. It was never towed in. It was a 1999 and didn't have that garbage on it. The 2014 has been towed in 8 times and has less than 400,000 miles on it. Every tow due to emissions malfunction. It is typical of all the trucks in our fleet. A very large fleet.

 

[ptsg]

If you have a dealer nearby, you can always buy a new Branson tractor and if the emissions actually becomes a problem to you, you can just replace the DOC with a regular muffler, disconnect the datalogger and you're good to go with a emissions free tractor.

I suggest you to do that, only if you actually have problems with emissions, which you may never have. It's related to a lot of different factors.