throw out bearing seized???

[grsr3]

This is a Kama TS254C. My clutch pedal suddenly got a lot of play in it. After adjusting it I looked around the area and noticed a tag I never saw before. I suspected there was something wrong because it went out of adjustment too fast.
Apparently you need to lube the throw out bearing periodically. Wish I knew that before. Only problem is there's no way to do it??? My machine has a little inspection cover that allows you to see inside the clutch area. I noticed the fingers that the throw out bearing pushes against had a thin layer of metal stuck on the tips. That could only mean the bearing is not turning on itself, and is spinning against the fingers, gradually grinding them away. They are not too badly damaged at this point but I got to get that bearing going or I am screwed---big time. I posted 3 pics on photobucket. One of the links is copied below. From that one you could see the other two. I searched and read some of the other posts about this issue but I don't have a rubber cover to grease. Nothing but the pedal shaft that a strange hole in the end---not a threaded grease fitting opening---I don't know what it is. Thought I was going to work on my Top N Tilt this week but it doesn't look that way now. Help.
George

DSCF1768.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

[Stimw]

I wouldn't mess around with it, I had a Ford (POS) that started squealing. Before I could get it parked it ate up the forks and did a lot of damage.
With throwout bearings there is good and bad, no in between.

 

[Willl]

Ditto what slim said above.

Might as well start gathering parts now and plan for a tractor splitting party.

 

[bluechip]

These throw out bearings will fail if kept in contact with the clutch fingers. This happens by resting the foot on the clutch and taking up the required 1" of free travel of the pedal. or by the clutch lining wearing and eliminating the 1" of free travel. The lube hole on the side is for putting a little grease on the surface that the throw out bearing carrier slide on. some have use the pointed tip of teh chinese style grease gun do actually add grease to the throw out bearing (a sealed bearing but it does have a small vent hole that grease can be injected into with the appropriate gun). It is important on these tractors to not have your foot on the clutch pedal when in motion. the clutch linkage on the TS seris tractors have a tremendous mechanical advantage making it possible to reduce the contact pressure of the clutch pressur plate by sthe simple resting of a foot on the pedal. You m ay have noted how easy it is to push the clutch on a TS series tractor.

 

[DwayneB]

Dang, hate to hear that!!!

I do use the small chinese tip to add a little grease the bearing ever once and a while. A grease needle would fit in the hole also.

I don't like the bearing design, hope you can find a better one while the tractor is apart. I doubt mine will go 500 hrs even with the periodic lube.

 

[Soundguy]

Usually when i see a person refering to -any- tractor make/model as a (POS) I immediatly think operator error and/or bad maintenance.

In most of tractor history from the 40's and up I can only think of 2 individual units I would grace with the (POS) title.. one was a deer ( one of the 3xxx series ) and one was a ford ( 6000 to be exact )


Soundguy

I wouldn't mess around with it, I had a Ford (POS) that started squealing. Before I could get it parked it ate up the forks and did a lot of damage.
With throwout bearings there is good and bad, no in between.

 

[grsr3]

HOLEY MOLEY
Dwayne--
Check out this link---I found the hole. In a desperation move I sprayed some silicon spray around the crimped edge of the bearing and got it moving. It was obviously dry and loose. It moved about 3/4 turn then stuck. Just by luck it stopped right where the infamous hole was. I took a picture of it for everyone to see. I think this is an important maintenance point that everyone with one of these tractors should know about. Had I known I may not be in this situation. Already ordered the grease needle from Chip at Artrac. Will grease the **** out of the bearing and keep my fingers crossed.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g271/grsr3/DSCF1770.jpg

 

[psj12]

If this bearing has already stuck then all the grease in the world will not save it. if what you say is true about metal galling on the fingers and the bearing appearing loose is true than the bearing has failed. You risk much more expensive damage to your tractor by trying to make this work.
I was given a tractor with a similar problem. After the bearing failed the former owner continued to operate it. The bearing carrier was warped from the heat, the bearing fingers were bent and the fingers on the pressure plate were eaten away. Many parts were required to return this tractor to working condition.
Splitting the tractor seems like a PITA but it really isn't that difficult and you will be $$ ahead in the future.

 

[RonMar]

If this bearing has already stuck then all the grease in the world will not save it. if what you say is true about metal galling on the fingers and the bearing appearing loose is true than the bearing has failed. You risk much more expensive damage to your tractor by trying to make this work.

PSJ12 pretty much summed it up. You can replace it now, or replace it and a bunch of other parts later... Throwout bearing problms, like hydraulic leaks don't just get better. IF you turned the bearing and it physically jammed, then it is toast and has little bits of metal inside which is what jammed it. All the grease in the world will not fix this.

The throwout bearing has about the easiest job on the tractor. IT is only spun up and placed under load when you depress the clutch pedal. Any other time it is setting back there doing nothing. The only way it should fail is thru misuse/riding the clutch pedal keeping it engaged all the time, or thru mis-adjustment keeping it engaged all the time...

Good Luck

 

[grsr3]

OK guys---I gave up. Called Chip and tried to cancel order for grease gadget---too late--oh well another useless tool hanging around. Found a Jinma dealer about 2 hours from me that was very knowledgeable about splitting tractors and is going to do it for me. He will also replace the ground down fingers and adjust everything properly. Waiting on new fingers from Chip. Price was VERY reasonable and his estimate of about 8 hours was in line with what others are saying. Just got to take it to him. Also going to let him take the old bearing to local supplier and match it to a USA made bearing (Timken, SKF, etc.)
I know everybody thinks I rode the clutch but I read articles about these clutches when I first got the machine and was careful not to do that. I noticed while inspecting the bearing that one of the clutch fingers was much further away from the bearing than the other two. That MAY have caused this to happen--I guess we'll never know. Less than a hundred hours on this tractor--maybe less than 50 (hour meter doesn't work). You can be sure I will be checking that new bearing regularly.
Here's some food for thought---
My bearing supply guy says that sealed bearings come from the factory with about 50% grease inside. Adding more to this can actually create heat build up and do more harm than good. Of course if there is very little grease left in there I suppose it would be good to add some---but how would you know??? I am going to post this as thread so others know about this---it may help avoid a problem for someone. Thanks to all for the input. George

 

[psj12]

The tool is not necessarily useless. I several needle type fittings on my tractor. I have also found I can use it on a standard fitting that is hard to reach.

 

[grsr3]

The tool is not necessarily useless. I several needle type fittings on my tractor. I have also found I can use it on a standard fitting that is hard to reach.

Hard to see type of tractor from picture. Is it a Kama and if so where are these other "needle type" fittings.
Geo.

 

[grsr3]

OK---here's the final result. Received my grease gun from Chip (which I didn't need) with the special "tip" on it. Unscrewed the tip on put it on my gun which was already loaded with a grease cartridge. The tip worked beautifully, absolutely perfect. I am happy I waited for it before I brought the thing to be split.
The tip fit perfectly into the little hole on the outside cover of the bearing. I wasn't sure if it was really getting in there until I saw grease starting to come out of the edges of the bearing. I hand turned the bearing several times and greased again. Cleaned up excess grease as best I could. Started tractor and slowly by hand put pressure on the pedal. Beautiful---it spun free. The tractor shifted better than it ever did before---which tells me the **** thing was never adjusted right to begin with. No grinding like I would usually get. My PTO also shifts much better and pedal is firmer and more responsive.

NOW------the bearing DOES make a little noise and the pedal DOES vibrate some. I KNOW this is a sick bearing. But I am going to use it and keep my eye on it until it starts to really complain. That bearing ONLY gets used when you push the clutch pedal down (assuming the clutch is adjusted right). Time will tell. I will order a new bearing and fingers and have them ready for that day (hope I'm still here). George

 

[grsr3]

Not sure if this is right--but I'm using an old thread to follow up to the present situation---for all those who want some background info. Anyway---It's TRACTOR SPLITING TIME---I'm sooooo happy. To quickly update--it's been almost exactly one year since the throw out bearing issue surfaced. The clutch pedal went to floor the other day just after i pulled the machine outof my garage. I checked the bearing thru the inspection opening and it was shattered in place---the game is up. I ordered a new bearing and disk about a month age from Chip and has been waiting patiently on a shelf in my garage. I'm going to try this myself and so far it's been pretty easy. First I pressure washed the whole thing down so I could see what I was doing. Got the Koyker loader off and the belly bracket assembly and the bottom plastic engine cover all in about two hours. Now I can see and get at all the bell housing bolts. The only attachments under the machine (at the point of separation) is the clutch linkage, an easy disconnect wiring harness and other minor linkage stuff and the front wheel drive assembly----will that slide apart when the halves are split or do you need to unbolt on end or the other???? All that looks pretty straight ahead. It's on the top where it gets complicated. Do I need to remove the entire dash assembly and all the stuff in there or will that go forward with the engine when the halves are split?????? there are some hydraulic lines---I think for the steering and a glass site bowl under the tank----filter probably. Don't want to do any unecessary work. Not going to remove those bell housing bolts til I'm sure things are separated properly. Also would like ideas on blocking up the front and rear end. Need something that will roll back and forth easily so there's not too much struggling with putting those shafts back. At this point I'm still in my driveway on the stones. I guess I should push it in the garage on the concrete floor for the splitting part. Any ideas on this operation will be welcomed. I am reviewing "Lakespirits" posts and will no doubt need to contact him soon---or he may see this.
If I knew the exact procedure I could probably have had this done by the time it took me to write this note---hahaha.
George

 

[greg_g]

The front drive shaft is dropped by means of a sliding collar just forward of the transfer case. There's no need to take off the "dash assembly" or fuel tank. I disconnected the steering lines at the pump, those big hex heads at the other end are too hard to get at. You might have to move some wiring for clearance when pulling the two tractor halves apart. Watch carefully as not to bend the lines when pushing them back together.

The front axle is on a pivot pin, so you'll want a pair of wedges right and left to keep the engine from tipping in one direction or the other after separation. Definitely do it on a cement floor, so you can move the rear half back and forth on a floor jack.

//greg//

 

[grsr3]

Thanks Greg. Will do.
Geo.

 

[Momboy007]

Sorry for the Hijack, but where exactly is the place where you lube the bearing? I can't seem to get the pictures to work
Thanks,
Rick

 

[greg_g]

Sorry for the Hijack, but where exactly is the place where you lube the bearing? I can't seem to get the pictures to work
Thanks,
Rick

Not all Chinese tractors use the older style (greasable) throw out bearings Rick. Both my tractors do, but your Jinma may have the newer style sealed bearing.

But if not, it's a tiny hole on the side of the bearing housing. You must have a strong light and a good set of eyes to find it. Rotate the TOB on its race a full 360 degrees and look for a pinhole on the side. Look carefully, as it may be obscured by clutch dust. If you find one, you use a needle tip grease gun. If you don't, it's almost certainly a sealed bearing.

//greg//