Thinking about a CS2410 - a few questions...

[rtimgray]

We're going to be expanding our yard area by a considerable amount next summer, and we're thinking about adding the fleet. The CS2410 looks promising, because of my experience with other Kioti products, but I've got a few questions:

1. Does anyone have experience with removing the mid-mount mower? How long does it take, and how hard is it to do? I'm not sure that I'm wanting a mid-mount mower, and that could be a deciding factor.

2. I already have a 48" finish mower (3 pt, Kioti brand) that we pull behind our Yanmar F16D. However, it looks like the CS2410 is right at 46" width, so mower would just barely cover the track. If I don't get the MMM, I'm thinking I might go with a 60" 3 pt mower. Does anybody have experience with MMM vs. 3 pt? I've never had any issue with the unit that we have on the Yanmar, and hooking/unhooking is easy (because the mover is easy enough to roll and man-handle, I don't have to back the tractor up very accurately). I can't really think of a negative of the 3 pt. vs. the MMM, other than overall length, but I would welcome any comments.

3. Tires: turf vs. industrial. What are the thoughts? We do plan on using it mostly for lawn work, so that pushes me towards towards turf; however, we do operate a cattle farm and do a fair amount of hay, bushhogging, etc. and I plan for the tractor to be used elsewhere. We have used our Yanmar for hay raking duties (pulling a New Holland 256 rake with a dolly wheel), so I think horsepower-wise, the CS2410 wouldn't have any issues. I'm just not sure about turf tires in regard to this. Similarly, it will probably used to bushhog some areas, so that pushes me towards industrial tires. And that leads me to...

4. What size bushhog (rotary cutter): We have a 4' rotary mower that we use with the Yanmar (16 hp or so), and it handles that fine. I'm assuming we could use this with the CS2410 as well. I was wondering if anyone uses a 5' rotary mower with a tractor this size. I figure two things are in play: horsepower and weight. While the horsepower might be adequate in tall grass, is the weight of the CS2410 adequate to handle a 5' cutter? As I comment when other folks are sizing implements, just because it's 5' wide doesn't mean you have cut all 5' everytime (the first lap, sure). I figure the HST will allow the unit to go slow in tall stuff when necessary. My question is mainly because the 4' rotary cutter will likely stay on the Yanmar for taking care of areas around the barn, and I will likely get a new cutter to go on the Kioti, so that's why I'm wondering about the 4' vs. 5' size.

That's at least my first round of questions. I would welcome any comments and thoughts about the tractor in general.

Thanks for your help. Good luck and take care.

 

[TJP89]

I have 0 experience on mid mowers for modern CUTs (old farm tractors and lawn tractors I have plenty, they're a pain). I'm not sure of the hookup Kioti has on the CS, but I'm pretty sure it's not the drive on drive off like JD has.

MMM vs RFM, you know what the deal is with the RFM. The MMM will probably be harder to take off and on. It will also tie up the 3PTH, that's how the mower goes up and down. Also, it will be under there every time you go in the woods or fields, getting banged around unless you take it on and off. I'd say if the tractor is going to be a dedicated mower, the MMM is fine, otherwise the RFM is the way to go.

R4s are a compromise between R3s and R1s, unless you're on pavement, which you're not. For lawn work, turfs are the best, for field work, ags are the best. I'd say as the primary use is to be lawn care, go with R3s. They won't be worse than R4s in your other intended uses.

On the RC, I have a 5ft behind my 35HP CK, and it fits it perfectly. 6ft would be OK there too though, so I'm not maxing out the tractor at 5ft. I think weight may be an issue for 5ft. My cutter weighs 600+ lbs, which is 0 problem for the 1700+ lbs 3PTH capacity on the CK, but is way to close to the 700 lb capacity of the CS. I don't think you want to max out the 3 point every time you mow. HP wise, you'd be 5.6HP below recommended power for a 5ft, might not be a huge problem, but you might notice with big weeds. Again, you'd be maxing out the tractor. If you have to cut at half width, there is no reason to get a 5ft cutter. I'd go 4ft.

Just my :2cents:

 

[ShowroomShine]

We're going to be expanding our yard area by a considerable amount next summer, and we're thinking about adding the fleet. The CS2410 looks promising, because of my experience with other Kioti products, but I've got a few questions:

1. Does anyone have experience with removing the mid-mount mower? How long does it take, and how hard is it to do? I'm not sure that I'm wanting a mid-mount mower, and that could be a deciding factor.

2. I already have a 48" finish mower (3 pt, Kioti brand) that we pull behind our Yanmar F16D. However, it looks like the CS2410 is right at 46" width, so mower would just barely cover the track. If I don't get the MMM, I'm thinking I might go with a 60" 3 pt mower. Does anybody have experience with MMM vs. 3 pt? I've never had any issue with the unit that we have on the Yanmar, and hooking/unhooking is easy (because the mover is easy enough to roll and man-handle, I don't have to back the tractor up very accurately). I can't really think of a negative of the 3 pt. vs. the MMM, other than overall length, but I would welcome any comments.

3. Tires: turf vs. industrial. What are the thoughts? We do plan on using it mostly for lawn work, so that pushes me towards towards turf; however, we do operate a cattle farm and do a fair amount of hay, bushhogging, etc. and I plan for the tractor to be used elsewhere. We have used our Yanmar for hay raking duties (pulling a New Holland 256 rake with a dolly wheel), so I think horsepower-wise, the CS2410 wouldn't have any issues. I'm just not sure about turf tires in regard to this. Similarly, it will probably used to bushhog some areas, so that pushes me towards industrial tires. And that leads me to...

4. What size bushhog (rotary cutter): We have a 4' rotary mower that we use with the Yanmar (16 hp or so), and it handles that fine. I'm assuming we could use this with the CS2410 as well. I was wondering if anyone uses a 5' rotary mower with a tractor this size. I figure two things are in play: horsepower and weight. While the horsepower might be adequate in tall grass, is the weight of the CS2410 adequate to handle a 5' cutter? As I comment when other folks are sizing implements, just because it's 5' wide doesn't mean you have cut all 5' everytime (the first lap, sure). I figure the HST will allow the unit to go slow in tall stuff when necessary. My question is mainly because the 4' rotary cutter will likely stay on the Yanmar for taking care of areas around the barn, and I will likely get a new cutter to go on the Kioti, so that's why I'm wondering about the 4' vs. 5' size.

That's at least my first round of questions. I would welcome any comments and thoughts about the tractor in general.

Thanks for your help. Good luck and take care.

I have a CS2410, has 190hrs on it.

1) I have the MMM. If you have a flat concrete surface it would be cake. Its pull 4 pins, remove driveshaft, slide out. Maybe 2 min removal, 4 min install.

2) I have a 48" RFM and the 60" MMM. The 48" RFM is annoying that it just barely covers the tracks of the tractor, so if you turn you are always shy and have to swing back around. I'd get a 60". The machine has enough power to run the 60" in the back, but you need counterweight (loader) in the front to keep from being front light. The RFM isnt as easy as you think to hook up, it takes actually a little longer than the MMM. The RFM cuts as well as the MMM, but wont leave a pristine lawn manicured finish or anything resembling stripes.

3) I got industrial. I use mine mostly on grass and it does fine, as long as you arent in 4wd you arent going to tear up grass. At no point in time have I wished I had of had turfs.

4) I'd get a 4' cutter for weight. The 2410 has enough power to run a 5', but it will be very light in the front with the 5' on the back.

Here is a link to some impressions of what I thought about my MMM vs the RFM.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/341128-pictures-comparison-mmm-vs-rfm.html?highlight=

 

[rtimgray]

TJ and Showroom - thanks to both of you for your responses.

I'm really curious about the MMM install/removal. I'm assuming that it slides in from the side of the tractor to install; is that right? Does it have wheels/casters or do you set it down on rolling casters to take care of that.

I've got a RFM right now and I can't imagine anything being easier to hook up. It is light enough that I can just roll it around, and it has flexible arms to attach to the 3 pt. lower arms, so it's really a piece of cake. I'm guessing that to attach the MMM, you have to either squat, hunker, or lay down to reach everything. I think I really need to go to the dealership and have them demonstrate this to me.

I think that I will go with industrial tires - we mowed our yard for years with the Yanmar, and it has the Japanese Rice tires (very aggressive) tires, and there were only a few spots that looked bad.

Sounds like 4' cutter. I have a 4' bushhog now, and was just thinking about a 5' in case I get a 30 hp tractor later. I'll probably just stick with the 4'.

Again, thanks so much for the help. It is truly appreciated.

 

[TJP89]

TJ and Showroom

From I can tell from pictures, you can roll it around on the guide wheels. I couldn't find any videos on the install/removal process, but showroom can likely help there. I'd talk to a dealer and get your hands on one, that will reveal a lot of things. It wasn't until I actually sat on a Kubota that I realized I could easily handle the infamous treadle pedal.

 

[paulfun9]

I switched from a MMM to a rear 3PT and will never go back again. My last MMM was a drive over deck and was still more work and harder to line up than any 3PT implement I ever had. It also made getting under the trees that much better as I can back it in and cut under farther than I could ever get with the mid mounts. In fact I didn't have to even start the push mower once since getting the rear mount, just a quick walk around a few things with a weed eater if I'm being picky and most times I'm not so that barely gets used as well. The rear discharge 3PT mower also allows me to cut faster than any MMM I have ever used (except some ZTR mowers but not all). I might be different with size but I prefer my rear mount mower to only be as wide as the rear tires, This allows me to cut very close without having to slow down and watch behind.

 

[ShowroomShine]

TJ and Showroom - thanks to both of you for your responses.

I'm really curious about the MMM install/removal. I'm assuming that it slides in from the side of the tractor to install; is that right? Does it have wheels/casters or do you set it down on rolling casters to take care of that.

I've got a RFM right now and I can't imagine anything being easier to hook up. It is light enough that I can just roll it around, and it has flexible arms to attach to the 3 pt. lower arms, so it's really a piece of cake. I'm guessing that to attach the MMM, you have to either squat, hunker, or lay down to reach everything. I think I really need to go to the dealership and have them demonstrate this to me.

I think that I will go with industrial tires - we mowed our yard for years with the Yanmar, and it has the Japanese Rice tires (very aggressive) tires, and there were only a few spots that looked bad.

Sounds like 4' cutter. I have a 4' bushhog now, and was just thinking about a 5' in case I get a 30 hp tractor later. I'll probably just stick with the 4'.

Again, thanks so much for the help. It is truly appreciated.

With the 2410 and a RFM you have to adjust the 3 point hitch arms to line up with the mower to keep it from swaying, so they are narrower than your other std 3 point hitch implements.

MMM rolls on casters that can turn sideways, but I usually drag mine and dont turn them. Its 4 pins that you un clip from the mower, raise the mid hitch, unhook pto and pull mower out from between the wheels.

Just so you know, a RFM cuts just as "cleanly" as a MMM, but will not leave the lawn looking near as manicured as a MMM. My Land Pride RFM does an excellent job if the grass is not tall, but if it is tall the clippings are just spread out and not chopped up several times like on a MMM. No stripes with a RFM either.

 

[rtimgray]

I don't quite understand what you mean when you say "adjust the 3 point hitch arms to line up with the mower to keep it from swaying". Is this different from any other 3 pt implement? Whenever I attach a bushhog or box blade to my DK 45 I always adjust the sway bars so that the mower or blade stays in the right position, relative to the tractor. Again I apologize if I'm missing something, but when I hook my RFM to my Yanmar, it's no different than any other implement. However, I don't know what might be different with regard to the CS2410 in particular, which may be what you are trying to explain, and I'm to slow to get!

I'm kind of leaning toward the RFM now, but that also made me notice that the Kioti 60" RFM weight 600 lbs. (and I know Showroom said it needs weight on the front to balance it out). Oddly enough, the Kioti 60" rotary cutter only weighs 450 lbs, so given that, I'm kind of leaning toward a 60" rotary cutter (since I already have a 4', I can always try the 5').

I'm still several months from making a purchase, so who knows how many times I'll change my mind about a given item between now and then!

Again, thanks for the help and input, and I again apologize if I am missing something really simple that is different about the CS2410.

Good luck and take care.

 

[ShowroomShine]

I don't quite understand what you mean when you say "adjust the 3 point hitch arms to line up with the mower to keep it from swaying". Is this different from any other 3 pt implement? Whenever I attach a bushhog or box blade to my DK 45 I always adjust the sway bars so that the mower or blade stays in the right position, relative to the tractor. Again I apologize if I'm missing something, but when I hook my RFM to my Yanmar, it's no different than any other implement. However, I don't know what might be different with regard to the CS2410 in particular, which may be what you are trying to explain, and I'm to slow to get!

I'm kind of leaning toward the RFM now, but that also made me notice that the Kioti 60" RFM weight 600 lbs. (and I know Showroom said it needs weight on the front to balance it out). Oddly enough, the Kioti 60" rotary cutter only weighs 450 lbs, so given that, I'm kind of leaning toward a 60" rotary cutter (since I already have a 4', I can always try the 5').

I'm still several months from making a purchase, so who knows how many times I'll change my mind about a given item between now and then!

Again, thanks for the help and input, and I again apologize if I am missing something really simple that is different about the CS2410.

Good luck and take care.

You arent missing anything, but the arms are not the easiest to adjust on the 2410.

Whatever you decide RFM or MMM, buy quality equipment. Dont buy the Kioti brand mower, its made by a 3rd party. Its not bad but by no means is it the best mower. Buy Woods, Land Pride or Bush Hog. You'll get higher blade tips speeds, and more suction and a longer life gearbox and warranty.

 

[DK35vince]

Whatever you decide RFM or MMM, buy quality equipment. Dont buy the Kioti brand mower, its made by a 3rd party. Its not bad but by no means is it the best mower. Buy Woods, Land Pride or Bush Hog. You'll get higher blade tips speeds, and more suction and a longer life gearbox and warranty.

The Kioti rear mowers where made by Sicma. I don't know if they still are.
I have a 84"First Choice rear finish mower made by Sicma (same mower as the older Kioti KRM03-84) and a 72" LandPride AT 2572 rear finish mower.
Personally I like my First Choice mower better. I rarely use the Landpride.