The best steering system at dump 4 wheel wagon trailer

[lyon]

I've posted this question already in other thread, but nobody answer.

Can anyone tell me some about steering systems used for running gears designed for compact tractors ?. I want to build my own four wheel dump (two hyd. cyl.) "wagon", max 6000 lbs, with large wheels (20" for mud roads), large flatbed (min 6x12'), and the best possible steering system.
What kind of steering use Kory, E-Z or MFG ?. Which would you like best ???

Thanks !!!

 

[Renze]

Best configuration for offroad trailers, is undoubtedly a walking tandem !

When going downhill on a slippery slope, it cant jack knife. The fixed towbar can transfer some weight to the tractors rear axle, giving more traction in mud.
when backing it up, the fixed towbar of a tandem trailer also is beneficial, because a 2 axle wagon also jackknifes when the rear axle meets a pothole and the front axle is under an angle: you just push the front axle aside.

 

[lyon]

Thank You Renze,

I really appreciate your opinion. From here or here !!!
But I still prefer four wheeled wagon old style ! Big advantage for me: is much easier to leave it loaded.
Besides I already have two axles (from an old used van- rear) with leaf springs attached, 20" wheels, cylinders. Before I start to build flatbed and tongue, I want to find a good steering system for the front axle. I can't risk to "play" with 6000 lbs....max load...
The movie posted by Iplayfarmer, here, it's impressive, I have to admit !!!

 

[Blagadan]

Are you talking about a wagon style trailer with axles on front and rear of the trailer, steering on the front?

A wagon like this? (only bigger of course... )

I'm thinking 6000kg (~6 ton) is a lot to ask of van axles/hubs/bearings (unless its a heavy duty van/truck of course)...

 

[Renze]

I'm thinking 6000kg (~6 ton) is a lot to ask of van axles/hubs/bearings (unless its a heavy duty van/truck of course)...

I think he said 6000 pounds.. thats just 3 ton. My manure spreader is a 3 ton single axle. My brothers 25 hp, 1600 kg 2011 could handle it with ease.

Thank You Renze,

I really appreciate your opinion. But I still prefer four wheeled wagon old style ! Big advantage for me: is much easier to leave it loaded.

I can leave my bale wagon loaded too, with a jack stand with a big enough dish. I want a pickup hitch on my tractor, operated by the 3pt hitch, to make it even easier.


2 Pickup axles should be able to take 3 ton, i think most 3/4t pickups already weigh that empty. Then you can add roughly 30% carrying capacity of the tires, when max speed is reduced from 150 to 30 km/h. In practice, the tires will have even bigger technical reserves when used for slow traffic.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

It seems someone posted a link some time ago to a page that give some measurements and ratios for a four wheeled wagon steering. I couldn't come up with the post on a search.

In the mean time the Wikipedia article about Ackermann steering geometry should get you started.

 

[CFHartman]

I'm retired now but when I worked at a paper mill we hauled 20 & 30 ton rolls on a wagon built for hauling rolls. It was 20 ft long and steered at both ends. When the front wheels turned one way the back wheels turned the other. I don稚 know how this would work on a dump trailer. It worked very well for our appcation.
Charlie

 

[lyon]

Thanks everyone !!!

Blagadan, indeed, 6000 lbs means aprox. 3 ton (in fact 2.721 kg) . so Renze's right !!!. But...yes...a wagon like that..!!!!.
Iplayfarmer thanks for Ackermann idea. Unfortunately Ackermann steering has a limited turning circle. Besides it's too tricky for me...But that post about measurement and ratios could help me...

GuglioLS inspires me a lot, wih his nice job. But for my needs, I choose four wheel wagon/trailer. The main problem I have is steering. I want something simple&efficient. Adaptable and easy to be mounted !!! Something like this..

 

[Blagadan]

Thanks everyone !!!

Blagadan, indeed, 6000 lbs means aprox. 3 ton (in fact 2.721 kg) . so Renze's right !!!. But...yes...a wagon like that..!!!!.

Yes USA still using pounds n ounces...

Note to self, read the post twice before answering next time....!

Insert "Dumb irish guy jokes" here....

I like the look of the Kory set up. Looks relatively simple and strong.

If you wanted to make it a real tight turner and overcomplicate it TBN style, you could add hydraulic rear wheel steer for really tight turns?

 

[Kernopelli]

I appreciate why you prefer a typical "wagon" style but personally I wouldn't want a steering axle like a typical farm wagon, simply because I can't back them worth a hoot. I am sure many of the farm raised guys on the site can put a wagon like that anywhere they want but my experience is they can be pretty hard to back up. I would suggest something closer to the pic, more like a typical tandem axle trailer with a fixed tongue but with the axles spaced a little more and centered front to back in the frame so it could be left loaded without having to have a tongue jack. I assume the axles you have are both straight axles without any kind of knuckles (rear axles), that is why you had posted a pic with center pin steering ( like an old Radio Flyer wagon)? My concerns would be that the ends of the front axle need to be supported and also, when the wagon is loaded, a sharp turn essentially makes the wagon a tricycle that could topple over. Something else you may want to consider are axle brakes. I don't know what size tractor you have but 6000lbs can become quite a handful when it starts pushing.