Teach Me About Bulk Propane Tanks in Texas....

[terry.dinerman]

Tho I have had worked with natural gas plumbing and appliances in one form or another all my life, commercial and residential, I will have to install propane out at The Ranch....

A quick search turns up multiple used tanks for sale, some with gas...

This raises a lot of questions....

1. What is an appropriate size tank for a 2,400 SqFt house....gas heat, gas stove, gas dryer, gas water heater....
2. What are the tank inspection requirements in Texas? Is hydrostatic testing required?
3. Will propane vendors fill a tank not under their lease? Are they required to by law?
4. What would a new tank cost? What have some of you folks paid for various sizes?

Share some wisdom here....

Regards-

Terry

 

[jbooth]

Haven't used propane for some time so my info may be outdated.

I had a 500 gallon tank that we had to fill once or twice through the heating season. House was 3600 sqft but well insulated and easy to heat. Also burned wood. Kansas is probably just a bit colder than Texas and the heating season may be a tad longer.

I owned my tank and the propane vendor filled it. He would have refused to fill it had it had any valve problems or other issues until he repaired at probably inflated rates. If I had leased the tank from him maintenace would have been "free".

Most gas appliances can be used on propane if smaller burner orifices are used.

I believe the periodic testing of tanks is mandatory with the last test date stamped near the valving set up. I have seen some pretty old tanks that have never been tested to my knowledge. Kinda what you supposed to do and what you really do.

I do not have a clue what what laws propane vendors are required to follow as far as refusing to fill a customer owned tank.

It seems to be a trend in our area to "contract" a given amount of propane at a certain price for a heating season. I would be reluctant to try to outguess someone who is in the business.

I would contact a propane vendor/s and have him explain your options.

Cost? I sold my used 500 gallon tank about 10 yrs. ago for $250.00

 

[nolefan]

I can't answer alot of your questions but I do think you are making the right move in owning your tank. There was a recent thread that discussed the pros and cons of owning versus leasing. We have a 500 gal above ground tank that we lease from the local gas company. It was cheaper up front but I believe in the long haul it would be cheaper to be able to shop for price than be tied to the one company and their price. I think how often you have it refilled will vary with weather conditions, what you keep your temps set at on the water heater and furnace, and the level of insulation in your home. Hopefully others more knowledgeable will chime in.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Q1: What is an appropriate size tank for a 2,400 SqFt house....gas heat, gas stove, gas dryer, gas water heater....

A: About 500 gallons should carry you over unless you have a lot of propane appliances. You can take the consumption rates of all the various appliances, estimate the time, and come up with a ball-park estimate. Best to purchase propane in the summer.

Other things to consider in addition to size - configuration of the tank, setting the tank (level on a spot where vegetation will not become a problem), and security from thieves.

Q2. What are the tank inspection requirements in Texas? Is hydrostatic testing required?

A: Any reputable dealer in the propane business will insure proper inspection. All tanks should have a manufacturer's certification tag with pertinent information, regardless of how old they are. Dealers are regulated by the Texas Railroad Commission which probably has a consumer information flier. http://www.propane.tx.gov/publications/lpg_safetyrules.pdf

Q 3. Will propane vendors fill a tank not under their lease? A: Yes.

Are they required to by law? A: I don't know. Maybe someone else here does. In any event, owning your own tank is the best option as noted above.

Q 4. What would a new tank cost? What have some of you folks paid for various sizes?

A: There are various places that sell used and refurbished tanks. For example - BLT TANKS LLC and LPG Propane Tanks - 500 Gallon - San Antonio and Bandera

You can often find a used tank for about a $1/gallon. Some of the older tanks actually have thicker steel than the new ones. That said, I would want all new brass on a used tank.

DO NOT transport a propane tank with fuel in it over a public road.

 

[danktx]

1. What is an appropriate size tank for a 2,400 SqFt house....gas heat, gas stove, gas dryer, gas water heater....

I think a 500 would be about right. Keep in mind the tanks are only filled to approx. 80%. So filled you would have 400 gal in your 500 gal tank. In the past I wished that I had a smaller tank when I filled so I would not have to pay out a grand when filling from empty. (Thats assuming 2.50 gal X 400 gal) With a smaller tank it would be more like paying a NatGas bill, smaller payments more often.

2. What are the tank inspection requirements in Texas? Is hydrostatic testing required?

I just bought a used 500 gal tank ($300) to replace a leased 250, ($66/yr) one week ago. They only did a visual inspection and verified it would hold pressure. The manufacturers tag must be in place and legible. The tank was made in 1949 though the blowoff valve and the fill gauge had been replaced in the last year. It had been maintained by the same propane provider that I had been leasing my tank from, that made it much easier I'm sure. I had them come out to replace all the connectors and valves and they gave it a clean bill of health. (service call < $175), that included a new regulator, valves, setting it, and connection.

3. Will propane vendors fill a tank not under their lease? Are they required to by law?

My experience is that if a tank is leased the leasing company is the only one that will service it and I found that my supplier did not give me the best price per gal, thus the reason I bought a tank. I can now shop around for the best price and I was told that if I found a better price, call my supplier and they would match the price.

4. What would a new tank cost? What have some of you folks paid for various sizes?

I called around this past month and prices for an above ground 500 gal tank and found $700 refurb to $1575 new. 250 gal ranged between $500 refurb and $1100 new. If you want a 500 gal buried its over $2100 plus extras.

I was told to purchase gas in Jul or Aug for best price.

 

[terry.dinerman]

http://www.propane.tx.gov/publications/lpg_safetyrules.pdf

BLT TANKS LLC

LPG Propane Tanks - 500 Gallon - San Antonio and Bandera

DO NOT transport a propane tank with fuel in it over a public road.

Greasemonkey -

Super information here....I visited the used tank sites and then downloaded the "Safety Rules" file and gave it a quick read...

...after my head hit the desk from loss of gray matter brought on by trying to untangle the "Bureau-Babble", it struck me (pun intended) that I am potentially poking land mines with a stick here.

I wouldn't buy a dog or a goat without a Vet having a look at them...so in consideration of the explosive potential involved with 400 or so gallons of LPG, I believe that I shall engage the services and purchase the advice of a licensed LPG professional in my area....

If I find someone who is willing to help me save a few dollars buying used equipment, I will reward that provider with my business...

I am all for taking risks....I do so in my line of work every day....but I prefer to take EDUCATED risks...

Thanks for the Education..! :thumbsup:

Regards-

Terry

 

[Slice]

i bought my 500 gallon tank 3 yrs ago paid 1300 for it and then another 1 k to fill it 500 gallons is not 500 its more like 400 is all they will fill it i have not fillled it in two yrs as i use it for generator and cook top only

good luck...

 

[charlz]

My house came with a leased 500 gallon tank and I continued the lease. IIRC it is $60/year. One thing I found out is I pay $.10/gallon more with a leased tank. This is for 'insurance' in case anything should happen to the tank such as a valve going bad and venting the contents to atmosphere. Does it cover the contents? Nope! So if 'their' tank goes bad and leaks all 'my' propane out I get to pay 'them' $$$$$$$$$$$ to fill it back up again after they fix it.

I have not tried calling another propane company to see if they will fill the tank even though it is not leased from them. I would think this could be considered 'poaching' in their industry but you never know.

 

[mikim]

they will only fill to 80% due to expansion needs so compute that into your sizing. My local LPG dealer is selling me a used 1000 tank for $1000. The normal price for a used tank is $1 per gallon. I figure if I get it from them it's surely in operational shape. I want such a large one so I can buy large amounts when it's cheap and coast through the time when it's not. Also - I'm going to have a generator that burns 2 gal per hr for when we might lose elect.

 

[johnrex62]

I don't know all the ins and outs, but I bought my own tank when I built out in the county. If you lease you are tied to the company for fuel, If you buy you can shop for price.

Many companies will sign you up for a "Keep Full" program where they check your level on a regular basis and top it off and send you a bill without you having to call them first. They will often give a small discount on the fuel rate in exchange for this service as it helps them smooth out their delivery demands and effectively locks you in to them even if you own your tank.

The max capacity of a tank fill is 80% of the tank size, as Mikim stated, due to the expansive nature of LP. Overfilling could cause the tank to overpressure on a warmer or sunnier day and pop your pressure release and allowing your gas to blow out. Safer and cheaper to only fill to 80%.

State law also requires your tank (owned or leased) to be inspected and certified. As long as it continually holds gas, it is defacto pressure tested and will continue to be certified. If you ever run it empty, they are required to test it and recertify before they can refill it. They do this often at your expense. If you lease the tank and it cannot be certified, the company replaces it at no cost to you. That is what that small leasing surcharge was all about. If you own and it cannot be certified, you have to buy another tank or think about leasing. They will possibly remove your old tank for a fee, No, NOT FREE. :laughing:

If you lease and decide to buy a tank, the company will come get the tank but you may have difficulty proving how much gas you had left and getting a refund or credit for that amount. This varies widely with company and how professional they are about losing clients.