TC55DA PTO lever seized up.

[MBeam]

I’ve got a 2005 T55Da that has about 900 hours (I think it’s really a lot higher) I bought used about 5 years ago. The PTO lever is frozen… will not move the slightest bit. The linkage is not corroded, bent or obstructed. With the engine off I can turn the shaft itself by hand in almost a complete circle in both directions. I’ve been using a 12’ batwing cutter for the last two years and I’m afraid it was just too hard on the Pto. Any ideas what might be causing this?

I can still use the tractor loader and 3 pt lift fine but I’m assessing whether or not it’s worth repairing.

Thanks

 

[Harry in Ky]

Admittedly I know nothing about a TC55, but curiosity gets the better of me sometimes.

1) What shaft are you turning "in almost a complete circle"
2) What "PTO lever" is frozen?

As I see it, the PTO is a hydraulic clutch pack. Oil flow to which is from a valve on top pf the transmission case. This valve has what appears to be mechanical control.. Probably by a cable and lever of some sort. I'm having a hard time understanding how your being "too hard on the PTO" caused any problems with any of that.

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[MBeam]

Hi Harry
I’m perplexed as well. The “shaft” is the pto splined shaft itself. Normally to line up the splines I have to shut the engine off and that frees up the pto enough to turn it clock and counter clock. It’s still functioning properly. And it still goes back to not being movable once the engine is restarted.

The “PTO lever” I’m referring to is the in cab area lever that is used to engage and disengage the pto while seated. It’s connected to linkage that goes to the control valve. The CV might be the problem
The lever will not move. Dead frozen.

I’m thinking the bushhog has overpowered the pto and seized/broken something or flat wore it out. The suggested power range for the BH is 45hp to 80hp IIRC. So I was pushing the limits with an old 55hp tractor.

I was hoping someone could say “I’ve had that issue it’s the …..”
I really don’t want to dive into disassembling it if it’s trashed. The tractor just doesn’t have that value and I don’t have that time or stamina.

What do you think?

 

[Harry in Ky]

What do I think? I think you're way off base on all counts. Overloading the PTO (if you actually did that) would affect the life of the clutch pack first. It would have no effect on external levers or linkages. If you have something "frozen" lever wise, it's just rust/dirt contamination, seized control cable, or something like that. Certainly not a "junk the tractor" issue. Revisit that portion of things and see what you find. The clutch pack probably has a spring applied brake plate that only allows it to make a partial rotation when it's off. Nothing unusual or threatening about that. Common design used on many tractors.

If you had actually done any internal damage the clutch would slip and your mower would slow down under load. It would be noticeable. Since you haven't mentioned that symptom, my guess is there's nothing wrong.

 

[dieselscout80]

I have a TC45DA that I pull a 9.5’ rotary cutter since 2022. I have not had any PTO issues. Mine has to be shutdown to rotate the PTO shaft for alignment with implements.

I would recommend unhooking the linkage between the tractor and the cab and see if it will shift then.

 

[MBeam]

As mentioned the linkage is not corroded, bent or obstructed. I’m aware turning the pto after shut down is normal. I simply added it as part of describing what still works and what doesn’t. I also have no intention of junking the tractor because pto doesn’t work. I bushog maybe twice a year. The tractor is still good for land work and lifting.
I did bypass the lever linkage and it’s seized at the control valve. That’s got to be removed first anyway to get to the rest of the pto assembly so I’ll just have to see if I have time this winter to start working my way thru it. I know my clutch pack has significantly worn down since I starting using the batwing mower due to being able to smell it on occasion and the lever has to travel a lot further before the pto clutches start engaging.

Thanks for the help

 

[dieselscout80]

Sorry I wasn’t clear what I suggested was to separate the two linkage systems and then test just the tractor part. Since in your first post you said the linkage wouldn’t move.

Testing in the manner I mentioned would tell you if it is a problem in either side cab linkage or internal to the powertrain.

A cab mount that is collapsed could bind the system up.

 

[Harry in Ky]

As mentioned the linkage is not corroded, bent or obstructed. I’m aware turning the pto after shut down is normal. I simply added it as part of describing what still works and what doesn’t. I also have no intention of junking the tractor because pto doesn’t work. I bushog maybe twice a year. The tractor is still good for land work and lifting.
I did bypass the lever linkage and it’s seized at the control valve. That’s got to be removed first anyway to get to the rest of the pto assembly so I’ll just have to see if I have time this winter to start working my way thru it. I know my clutch pack has significantly worn down since I starting using the batwing mower due to being able to smell it on occasion and the lever has to travel a lot further before the pto clutches start engaging.

Thanks for the help

I'm sorry, but we're still not on the same page. The condition of the PTO clutch has no bearing on the control valve. Doesn't matter how far the lever moves, how hard it is to move, or any of that. The valve merely sends oil (or doesn't) to the clutch pack. The two items have have no more in common than that. I would assume however, there is probably a test port somewhere to check clutch engage pressure. If you decide to get into it, I would suggest a quick check in that area would be worthwhile.

I guess I misinterpreted your first post. You mentioned "assessing whether or not it's worth repairing." I read that as a question about whether the tractor (as a whole) was worth repairing, but I think you were only referring to the PTO problem.

 

[MBeam]

I'm sorry, but we're still not on the same page. The condition of the PTO clutch has no bearing on the control valve. Doesn't matter how far the lever moves, how hard it is to move, or any of that. The valve merely sends oil (or doesn't) to the clutch pack. The two items have have no more in common than that. I would assume however, there is probably a test port somewhere to check clutch engage pressure. If you decide to get into it, I would suggest a quick check in that area would be worthwhile.

I guess I misinterpreted your first post. You mentioned "assessing whether or not it's worth repairing." I read that as a question about whether the tractor (as a whole) was worth repairing, but I think you were only referring to the PTO problem.

I understand what you are saying and I appreciate your suggestions. I’m not familiar with a pto clutch system even though I have a manual. I’m can use a manual to remove but I have to have it in my hands to figure it out. I’ve worked on truck and bulldozer clutches but not PTO. I was wondering if something besides the disc in the clutch system could seize like a bearing or pressure plate, etc. it’s been a long time since I’ve been on a forum so I’m just not as clear as I use to be. I tend to let my thoughts leap frog over my typing. You are correct I can probably test its pressure but that’s a real pain to get to so I’ll wait. I kinda was hoping that someone like dieselscout would say “yeah I had same issue this is what it probably is”… haha…not this time.

 

[MBeam]

Sorry I wasn’t clear what I suggested was to separate the two linkage systems and then test just the tractor part. Since in your first post you said the linkage wouldn’t move.

Testing in the manner I mentioned would tell you if it is a problem in either side cab linkage or internal to the powertrain.

A cab mount that is collapsed could bind the system up.

You were clear. I wasn’t.
I did find it was not the entire linkage. But the lever on the control valve. It’s clean and not corroded but I still have soaker on it (2 days) in case it’s not internal.

That’s interesting about cab mounts. I’ll check that out (I know for sure nothing is binding the CV) in case it’s about to real havoc elsewhere.

 

[ptsg]

I understand what you are saying and I appreciate your suggestions. I’m not familiar with a pto clutch system even though I have a manual. I’m can use a manual to remove but I have to have it in my hands to figure it out. I’ve worked on truck and bulldozer clutches but not PTO. I was wondering if something besides the disc in the clutch system could seize like a bearing or pressure plate, etc. it’s been a long time since I’ve been on a forum so I’m just not as clear as I use to be. I tend to let my thoughts leap frog over my typing. You are correct I can probably test its pressure but that’s a real pain to get to so I’ll wait. I kinda was hoping that someone like dieselscout would say “yeah I had same issue this is what it probably is”… haha…not this time.

The PTO lever moves a spool on the PTO valve. This spool, then redirects the oil either to lube the wet PTO clutch pack (PTO Off), or sends oil to the piston in the clutch pack to engage the PTO (PTO On).

Wet clutches are very very durable as those run under oil plus have multiples discs. I don't think you have any damage on the clutch at all, specially with only 900 hours on the tractor. The hardest time of a clutch is engaging, specially if done under load. After it's engaged, you can load it all you want, it has to hold until the tractor bogs down and shuts off, of course, as long as the clamping pressures are within spec.

Even if the clutch was worn out and slipping a lot, it won't really throw a smell like a conventional dry clutch, since it's pretty much under a bath of oil, hence the name wet clutch, plus you would notice the mower just slowing down while the engine RPM didn't change.

Back to the PTO valve, the spool rotates one way or the other as you move the lever. I'm kinda struggling to think how it could possibly seize inside the actual valve, since it always has oil going through it. Have you physically actuated the lever by hand right at the valve?

 

[dieselscout80]

You were clear. I wasn’t.
I did find it was not the entire linkage. But the lever on the control valve. It’s clean and not corroded but I still have soaker on it (2 days) in case it’s not internal.

That’s interesting about cab mounts. I’ll check that out (I know for sure nothing is binding the CV) in case it’s about to real havoc elsewhere.

The cab mount point was just an example of something outside of the PTO system and linkage that might cause the issue.

Most newer Farming sized tractors use electric over hydraulic systems. They decrease cab penetrations, helps HVAC l, thus make it quieter and as less ways for dust to enter.

 

[ruffdog]

You were clear. I wasn’t.
I did find it was not the entire linkage. But the lever on the control valve. It’s clean and not corroded but I still have soaker on it (2 days) in case it’s not internal.

I would first suspect the linkage shaft that goes into the valve may have rusted. All it takes is a bit of moisture and not being used for a while. Keep spraying it and lightly tapping it with a hammer may help the lube to work in there. Good luck.

 

[MBeam]

The PTO lever moves a spool on the PTO valve. This spool, then redirects the oil either to lube the wet PTO clutch pack (PTO Off), or sends oil to the piston in the clutch pack to engage the PTO (PTO On).

Wet clutches are very very durable as those run under oil plus have multiples discs. I don't think you have any damage on the clutch at all, specially with only 900 hours on the tractor. The hardest time of a clutch is engaging, specially if done under load. After it's engaged, you can load it all you want, it has to hold until the tractor bogs down and shuts off, of course, as long as the clamping pressures are within spec.

Even if the clutch was worn out and slipping a lot, it won't really throw a smell like a conventional dry clutch, since it's pretty much under a bath of oil, hence the name wet clutch, plus you would notice the mower just slowing down while the engine RPM didn't change.

Back to the PTO valve, the spool rotates one way or the other as you move the lever. I'm kinda struggling to think how it could possibly seize inside the actual valve, since it always has oil going through it. Have you physically actuated the lever by hand right at the valve?

Well this is encouraging thanks. The clutch smell must have been from the mower itself. It has several drivelines and three clutch packs.

 

[MBeam]

I would first suspect the linkage shaft that goes into the valve may have rusted. All it takes is a bit of moisture and not being used for a while. Keep spraying it and lightly tapping it with a hammer may help the lube to work in there. Good luck.

Yeah. I just got back from a little more spray and a few more taps. Hopefully it will be the issue and will break loose.

 

[MBeam]

Just a follow up. I got it freed up. Works but still occasional binds up. Thanks for the help.