TC40DA No Start

[SuperCobra]

Good evening,
First let me say that I think I've found all of the various TC no start threads on here and appreciate everyone's sound advice. That said, I haven't had time yet to systematically check everything, the tractor is stuck out in the field and I get home after dark, I'd like to narrow down the parts I buy and frankly, I suck at troubleshooting. I hoping this knowledgeable group can help me shortcut some steps:

Here are the symptoms
1) Ran fine, never had any start problems.
2) Shut it off for a half hour, went to start it, turned the key, nothing other than small movement on fuel gauge and tach needle coming off the peg. Not even a click on starter.
3) Cursory glance at battery terminals and ground to frame looks good, tight and clean (didn't take cables off and clean them though).
4) After time on the battery charger and even fifteen minutes being jumped, still no start. However, small improvement in that the starter (solenoid) now clicks somewhat rapidly when I turn the key.
(I have noticed that when I first turn the key I get dim dash lights and the needles barely move and then after a five seconds or so the needles (fuel and tach) climb up where they should be and I get a hum/buzz noise from under the instrument panel. It also seems like the lights get brighter (but still very dim) after the same amount of time.
5) No flashers - key on or off (rules out an ignition switch problem?).
6) I have a Ohm meter and think I can use it correctly and even know where the fuses/relay are - I just haven't had the time to get out there.

I've read all the posts about bad ignition switches, bad batteries, bad cables, bad ground, bad #2 fuse, bad neutral relay, solenoid wiring fixes, self-resetting CBs instead of fuses, etc., etc.
(thanks Jinman and others).

My questions:
1) My previous experience with batteries is that even if bad you can usually jump them correct? So I'm assuming if it is a battery related problem it is with battery connections or cables
2) If the #2 fuse is bad or neutral relay you won't get any noise out of the starter/solenoid correct but all of the gauges/lights should function as the always did?
3) If bad PTO or or seat safety engine still turns over right? How about with the neutral start?
4) To verify the starter isn't bad I can just take run the positive jumper cable from the battery to the big post on the starter correct? And if it is a battery/battery cable or connection problem can I verify that by just running the positive cable from the jumping vehicle's battery to the lug on the starter?

Sorry for questions that may seem obvious to some. Not meaning to come across as lazy, just trying to trouble shoot from a distance since I have limited time to out to the tractor and the parts store.
Thanks in advance,
Randy

 

[pak7819]

Suggest getting an owners manual with a wiring diagram. Assuming your battery is good and ground is good, start at the keyswitch and make your way to the relays behind the panel to the left of the steering column. You can access some of the fasteners for the 2 covers bolted together under the steering column by opening the hood.

If your gauges are jumping when you turn the key you're getting some power to your buss bar but I would be checking your key switch to be sure. You can override your keyswitch by unhooking the flat four plug to your keyswitch, jumping either 12v red (HM7 or 6) with the orange (HM10). This simulates essentially turning your keyswitch to the "run" position and powering your buss bar. You should be getting power to your gauge cluster and powering your glow plug relay in this position. To simulate turning your switch to the start position, leave the 12v jumper connected to HM10 and then jump the other 12v red to the white wire (HM11).

If no luck, then work your way over to your relays with a wiring diagram in hand. This is stuff you can do in a relatively short amount of time and properly use process of elimination.

 

[thclimer]

Randy,

Just a guess on my part but when you say lights dim and solenoids chatter it makes me think your problem is with your battery or battery cables, i.e. poor connections somewhere.

I believe you can have a bad battery; possibly shorted cell and jumping with a good battery will not help as long as the shorted cell is still in the circuit.

Looks like you have read up on most of the starting issues. How old is your battery? I would try to first verify that it is good by taking it to a shop to have it tested. If you can't get the present one tested you could bring a know good battery to your tractor and temporarily install it and give it a try.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

 

[DieselMonk]

Me too... before I touch anything else I'd make sure that there is power. Take both battery cables off, clean them, load test the battery and if you still have no power don't forget that fuse link cable. Its a clable that is suposed to work like a fuse. The manual will be your friend!

 

[SuperCobra]

Thanks for all the comments. Six year old battery but it never gave any problems in the past and I'm used to batteries showing signs of weakness rather than just quitting completely. I'm spring loaded for the worst case after reading all of the other threads on TC start problems. It looks like I'll have some time to swap batteries tonight so I'll do that first. Thanks for the helpful comments so far. I'll let you know how it turns out so save yourselves some typing for now. I'll report back if I'm still stumped.

 

[jinman]

I would say that you have to bypass both the positive cable to the starter and the negative ground cable to the tractor frame. Attach your jumper battery's negative jumper cable to a good ground (bare metal) near the starter. I say near the starter because your positive cable is going to the starter and you can have both cable connections close together. After putting the jumper to the starter's big positive terminal and with a good ground for the negative terminal, give starting another try. If the tractor starts, you could have a cable corroded inside the insulation jacket. It might show good if you use an ohmeter, but fail under high current.

The 40 amp main fuse is right above the starter. It has a rubber cover, easily removed. You don't have any inline current limiters on your model tractor. If this 40 amp main fuse was bad, you would have a dead tractor (no lights, no nothing). Also, the current to the starter has no fuse or limiter. The signal to the solenoid gets power from fuse #2, but the solenoid energizes and connects the battery directly to the starter. You can bypass all starting logic and safeties by jumpering from the big starter terminal to the solenoid. If your battery and cables are good, that should cause your starter to energize. You can do that with the jumper battery attached also.

 

[257NH]

Does your keyswitch still feel the same when you turn the key?Or does it grab at all and feel a little gritty?
Brian

 

[Soundguy]

i agree.. could be bad connections or bat.. and as jim pointed out.. don't overlook a bad chassis ground.

also.. a bad bat will make it harder to jump.. that's a huge load / power sink!

 

[SuperCobra]

Thanks for the help everyone. Tractor is now home safe and sound from the neighbors. Turns out it was just the battery. I decided to just stop on the way home and buy a new battery. It started right up without even tightening the connections.

I stopped at AutoZone and got a DuraLast Gold (based on consumer reports and other reviews - cheapest, longest warranty, highest CCA etc). But... I got the wrong size battery. I got a 24F based on a post here on TBN:

"...The BCI Group 51 battery is the one for the smaller Boomers. I just pulled that number out of the top of my head and I got the wrong number. The Group 51 Battery is smaller in size than needed. All the Class III Boomers take a BCI Group 24F battery..."

No slam directed against the person who posted that and maybe I misinterpreted.

The 24F is much too big to fit my hold downs. So I'll see if i can return it. I could make new tie-downs but I'm concerned that the larger battery blocks too much of the radiator - seems minor but it is quite a bit larger. Is that a valid concern?

Which leads me to the second question. I got this from another post here on TBN:

"Batteries used on TC series tractors are an agricultural type (antimony charged and rated for rough service). Typically agriculture machinery use is seasonable and equipment may go for extended periods of time without being run and without the battery being charged. An antimony charged battery will maintain charge over longer periods of inactivity than standard automotive type batteries, however, agricultural type batteries (antimony charged) will however produce more corrosive/acid vapor. For units in continual use where periods of inactivity or rough usage/service is not a concern consider a maintenance free automotive battery."

This post was from 2003. Is this still a valid concern? I figure there is probably pretty big price difference if I went with an "agricultural" battery so I'll probably just stick with my $105 maintenance free automotive battery. Especially since lack of maintenance is probably what did in my 6 year OEM battery. Thanks.

 

[jinman]

Glad you found the problem. Sometimes it just "screams" at us and we overlook the real problem anyhow. The obvious ain't always so obvious. I'm sorry you got the wrong battery. I put a battery box into my tractor and dropped in an Optima AGM. It's not for everybody, but that cured my battery problems.