Synchro vs. Hydraulic m7040

[Pastmmo]

Well, one year worth of lurking and ready to start serious research on m7040 vs. m8540.

Approx. 400 acres of timber, only requiring fire lane maintenance twice a year (for now). Mowing / Disc-ing. This takes approx. 50-60 hours per year.
General landscape / upkeep of 16 acre pond to include mowing, "lightweight" clearing of land, removing dead trees, etc.

The fire lane maintenance will push me to a larger tractor, otherwise, an L model would work.

I have stopped by the local dealer numerous times and drooled over the 7040.

I am planning a cab, FEL, grapple (of some type), 3pt hitch mower, and other small implements.


Question for the experts here....(I have searched the forum and can't find a simple answer)

Please explain in layman's terms the difference btwn the synchro vs. hydraulic shuttle transmission. From what i've seen, (glowplug, m7040, and most others) have chosen the hydraulic option. However, every 7040 that my dealer has had on property in the past 6 months has been the synchro.

My understanding is that w/ the hydraulic you can shift forward, reverse, forward, reverse, etc. without using clutch and ir-regardless of tractor movement (i.e. don't have to stop forward movement before shifting to reverse). Is this correct????


-PastMmo

 

[SCDolphin]

Go with hydro.........A good dealer will get you what you want, not what they want to get rid of.
I have been looking since 03...I probably have 5K miles on my car looking........send me a private message.......I have amassed so good info and dealers if are interested.

Good luck

 

[art]

The 8540 is a little larger as far as the hitch goes and for dragging logs and three point hitchwork the added heft might help.

As far as they hydro or syncro reverser there is only one way that you normally can use it and that is going from reverse to forward as normally you would use the clutch when loading or stacking for better control.

The difference in the price, ownership for how long, makes the feature normally worth it!

 

[froggy]

This is from the Kubota web site:

"The SynchroShuttle provides easy direction changes, simply clutch, shift and go coming to a complete stop is not necessary. .... the hydraulic shuttle provide clutchless direction changes. The hydraulic shuttle also includes a wet main clutch for long life."

 

[Z-Michigan]

The 8540 is a little larger as far as the hitch goes and for dragging logs and three point hitchwork the added heft might help.

As far as they hydro or syncro reverser there is only one way that you normally can use it and that is going from reverse to forward as normally you would use the clutch when loading or stacking for better control.

The difference in the price, ownership for how long, makes the feature normally worth it!

The 8540 is up to a size where you really need to buy category 2 type implements - I don't remember if the hitch is even adaptable to category 1 pins. That means pricey implements even for basic stuff. But for heavy work that's what you'll need.

When I was pricing the M5040 the cost was $1200 to get the hydraulic shuttle. I think it is absolutely worth it, especially on the larger models. Much more convenient and several times longer clutch life.

 

[art]

The 8540 is up to a size where you really need to buy category 2 type implements - I don't remember if the hitch is even adaptable to category 1 pins. That means pricey implements even for basic stuff.

Just like catagory 1-2-3-4 or O there are ways to adapt them. Many aftermarket attachments are a mixed bag or more then one catagory. For many attachments I normally recommend going one horsepower grouping larger for longevity, another words to buy 100 horsepower attachments for a 80 horsepower tractor. Thru the years I've seen, or heard, I didn't know that rock was so big or that that tree stump was there!

 

[texasjohn]

For me, HST means extreme precision and safety. You can move forward or back with your max load EXTREMELY SLOWLY and WITHOUT ANY JERKS, and without any risk of a foot slipping off of a clutch.

I have buddies that help me from time to time with various tasks... me in the cab and they are out in front or back viewing and manipulating stuff. The HST allows me to follow their hand directions when I can't see and jointly we can place 2800 lbs chuncks of concrete within 1/16" of exactly where it needs to go... the first try. Nothing bounces, jerks or bumps..... I never thought of this as a feature until I realized that many of the tasks that I'm doing require precision and reliable tractor movement.... I don't think there is any way that I could achieve this with a clutch mechanism.

I love HST and believe that unless you will NEVER do close, tight, precision work requiring slow movements with or without loads, it is a VERY desirable option. It is mandatory for me, now, even at higher price.

Now I remember that once I wrote up what I think about HST... here it is:
-----
1.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]I have to say the hydrostatic transmission allows EXTREME PRECISION of movement, forward and reverse in tenths of an inch if you need it. I love it. It creates a safe environment when working with others close to the tractor. This safety factor never occurred to me until I began to realize how precise it is and how often I have a helper right at the tractor connecting chains, putting things in the FEL, etc.. It’s use with the FEL is superb, I no longer get tired from shifting/clutching with such back and forth activities. Further, when carrying a big load or on a slope or positioning something precisely, the speed control capability is simply fabulous. The HST alone has kept me from turning over IMHO. I originally thought that its speeds were mismatched and that it would not go fast enough. I was comparing to a previous manual shift tractor I had. True, max road speed is about 15mph. However, on the ranch I discover that I am always able to find a good match between engine RPM and HST mph selection. Low and medium range are for loads and speed control. Interesting how letting up on the pedal actually achieves a lower gear/more power as well as slower speed and higher precision. High range is for transport with no/light load on flat ground/minimum slope. The cruse control I use infrequently and for only short periods but is a nice feature allowing me to relax on a long haul.

 

[66gladiator]

We have 12-15 M-Series in stock at any given time, probably 1/2 to 2/3 of which are hydraulic shuttle models. Not sure where in SC you are, but you are more than welcome to come try them out and see the difference for yourself.
I believe we have an 8540HDC with LA1353 FEL, I will check that in the AM, we also handle Bush Hog brand implements and I have plenty of them in stock. We also have several Precision Mfg add-a-grapples on order including the HD model and we have the Kubota third function valve in stock. Looks like you might need to come see us.

 

[texasjohn]

I reread your post and specific question:
"My understanding is that w/ the hydraulic you can shift forward, reverse, forward, reverse, etc. without using clutch and ir-regardless of tractor movement (i.e. don't have to stop forward movement before shifting to reverse). Is this correct????"

YES.

 

[Pastmmo]

Thank you, everyone, for the information.

I was able to go to a dealer yesterday with some more "informed" questions and had an expectation about the hydraulic shuttle.

It seems the hydraulic is, by far, the way to go.

York County... I'll be paying you a visit sometime in the next few weeks.

Now, more research about the different class of implements for the 7040 vs. the 8540.


PastMmo

 

[Muleskinner]

Kubota does not label it an "M7040HD" for nothing. The HD stands for heavy duty. The hydraulic shuttle is a HD clutch design with multiple wet discs vs one dry clutch disc. The hydraulic shuttle unit will out last the dry disc style anyday. The price for the hydraulic shuttle is not that much more when you look at the overall cost and life of the tractor!

 

[machmeter62]

We have 12-15 M-Series in stock at any given time, probably 1/2 to 2/3 of which are hydraulic shuttle models. Not sure where in SC you are, but you are more than welcome to come try them out and see the difference for yourself.
I believe we have an 8540HDC with LA1353 FEL, I will check that in the AM, we also handle Bush Hog brand implements and I have plenty of them in stock. We also have several Precision Mfg add-a-grapples on order including the HD model and we have the Kubota third function valve in stock. Looks like you might need to come see us.

What is the differrence between the hydraulic shuttle and the GST trans? Is it the gear selection process?

 

[froggy]

What is the differrence between the hydraulic shuttle and the GST trans? Is it the gear selection process?

Here a good description from the TractorSmart website:

"Hydrostatic Drive. Any hydraulic pump's sole purpose in life is to deliver some amount (volume) of fluid to some other device, which in turn moves whatever is attached to that device, causing work to be performed. This can be either through linear motion (as in a hydraulic cylinder), or rotary motion (as in a hydraulic motor). If we want to control how quickly our device moves (or rotates), one way we can do that is to vary the amount of oil that the pump sends to it. If our pump is delivering four gallons a minute, things will happen four times faster than if we only pump one gallon a minute. (Are you with me, so far?) Since we can control our pump's output, we can control the motor's speed. Now, unless we just want to go around in a circle all day long, we've got to figure out how to change directions. No problem. (You knew that, didn't you?) Most hydraulic motors don't care whether they are turned clock-wise or counter-clockwise. (They probably don't even know the difference!) Since a hydrostatic transmission operates in what is called a closed loop system, consisting of the pump and motor units, we simply reverse the direction of flow from the pump, causing the motor to operate in the opposite direction. Oh, by the way, closed loop means that a fixed amount of system oil is trapped, or contained, within the pump/motor circuit. Assume that a certain hydro transmission is of a size that it contains 500 ml of oil within the closed loop. That volume remains constant, never changing regardless of tractor speed or direction. So, for any change that we make in the output volume and/or direction of flow of oil from the pump section, a reaction must occur in the motor section, inducing a corresponding change in motor speed and/or direction. In reality, there is a certain amount of oil that is constantly escaping from and being replenished back into the closed loop section of the transmission. This is because a small amount of oil is allowed to flow all around the various components for lubrication and cooling purposes. The greatest advantage of a hydrostatic transmission is the ability to infinitely vary the ground speed and quickly change directions. It's like having a million speed transmission. If you need a travel speed of 1.200589 MPH, it is available. Another advantage is reliability. This transmission is, by way of design, pretty much self-protecting from operator abuse. Also, on foot pedal controlled transmissions, there is a built in safety factor in that you need only lift your foot from the pedal, to bring the tractor to a controlled stop. The only disadvantage of note is a slight loss of power at the PTO shaft. You must also remember to apply the parking brake should you park the tractor on a slope. Hydrostatic is, by far, the best choice for turf mowing applications or for any tasks that require constant speed and direction changes within a small area.

Glide Shift. This is a Kubota exclusive. It is best described as a manual shift transmission whereby gear selection is achieved without the necessity to operate the tractor's main clutch. It is very similar in design and function to the synchro-shift type. All of the gears in this transmission are synchronized. The major difference is found in the addition of one hydraulic clutch pack and a hydraulic shift cover that is mounted to the side of the transmission housing. Eight speeds are available, with forward and reverse (shuttle) for each speed. Stay with me as we go through a shifting sequence. Let's assume that we are in 2nd gear and wish to shift into 3rd. Without touching the clutch pedal, we simply move the shift lever from 2nd gear position into 3rd gear position. (Boy, that was easy!). What just happened was, we lined up some oil passages in the shift cover to redirect pressurized hydraulic oil to make the shift for us. The first thing that happened was that the hydraulic pressure that was holding the clutch pack squeezed together was allowed to escape, releasing the clutch. This causes the engine to stop driving the transmission. Next, oil (under pressure) is directed to the 2nd gear shift rail cylinder in a manner which places that rail in neutral. Then, oil pressurizes the 3rd gear shift rail cylinder to move 3rd gear into engagement. Oil is then directed to the clutch pack squeezing it together once again, to reconnect engine drive power to the transmission. The actual shift part of the sequence occurs very quickly, taking about 4/10ths of a second. Clutch pack re-engagement, however, is a time-controlled process in order to allow smooth shifting and eliminate jerkiness in the shifting process. Glide shift has been around for several years now with excellent reliability. It is a great choice if you will be doing a lot of front loader work, as well as working in larger fields. Using a front loader can be very hard on main drive clutches. With glide shift the need for manual clutching is eliminated."

 

[Z-Michigan]

Two different posters seem to have confused the hydraulic shuttle with a hydrostatic transmission. They are entirely different animals:

-hydraulic shuttle: a conventional GEAR transmission, with the normal clutch replaced with a wet clutch that can be activated by a dash lever without pushing the clutch pedal. There are still individual gears and you do push the clutch pedal for shifting between gears, you just don't push the pedal for shifting among forward, reverse, and neutral. The hydraulic shuttle does NOT have infinitely variable speeds.

-hydrostatic transmission: there is no clutch (most brands except Kubota) or if there is a clutch, it is used only for very limited purposes (Kubota). The transmission of power is done by a hydraulic pump/hydraulic motor set up. There are two or three separate gear options that equate to the range options on a gear transmission. Otherwise speed control is done by pushing the HST pedals and varying the amount of power transmitted between the hydraulic pump and hydraulic motor. This allows for infinitely variable speeds, as slow as you want. There is a bit of power loss in the transmission, though it is minimal for most purposes.