Stuck PTO shaft saga

[aczlan]

Have you tried putting a prybar between the cross and the end of the shaft and pushing off of that?
I would also bang on the sides of the coupler to rock it from side to side.

Aaron Z

 

[Dead Horse]

I have had the same problem only not as severe as yours.

This issue originated from having a PTO shaft which is cut too long, as previously pointed out. The PTO output and input shafts on tractor and implement are very hard steel. When compressing the shaft beyond its limit, something has to give and it is the locking pin in either end of the Shaft (at the collar)

The problem is that the input or out put shaft "shaves" a chunk off the pin, leaving the shrapnel behind, in the pin groove of the input or out put shaft. This results in the collar being "pressed" on to the input or out put shaft and the pin extremely tight in this position. When attempting to remove the collar, the remains of the pin want to twist and bite into the shaft thus locking it in place. Steady pulling is not going to work as well as a shock pull.

You will have to be careful doing this not to hurt the pulling equipment, the gear box input shaft or yourself.

In my instance I applied a LOT of pull tension on the collar with a come along and then whacked said collar with a hammer. any movement resulted in re-tensionning and repeated whacks. rinse and repeat. It will come off, but the collar will be junk.

 

[nickel plate]

I recently cleaned and re-greased the PTO shaft on my rotary mower (I do this every couple of years) as mentioned before and today I hooked it up-slick and sweet, about five seconds to spline attach versus a minute or two/five attempt and a bunch of loud swear words when dirty.

 

[gengine]

Maybe not tractor related, but my old blazer had a receiver hitch with a stabber rusted in. I sprayed it with PB for a couple days, then chained to a tree and gave 'er heck. Nothing moved. Sprayed another couple days, applied heat, and tugged again. Got a loud bang, stopped and checked, had to buy a whole new receiver hitch and a bumper. Just out of curiosity, I took the broken hitch to work for the big press, 19.5 tons to break that puppy loose.

 

[Depmandog]

Your efforts will be made easier using heat, tension and a sledge hammer (and a helper). A cutting torch with a rosebud tip is ideal. Put the shaft under tension. Heat the shaft for ten minutes while under tension. Have the helper repeatedly rap it with a small sledge, while you apply the heat. Good luck.

 

[deezler]

Arg. Thanks for the advice everyone.

I don't have a cutting torch, so was going to start with a small handheld torch. Probably a waste of time. I think at this point I will fire up the air compressor, and just get out the cut-off wheel. It's only $60 for an "economy" driveline shaft from agri-supply.

 

[284 International]

That's pretty cheap for a new shaft. Just make sure the splines don't get mangled trying to cut it off. You may find the high frequency vibration and heat will loosen it up enough to slide off anyway.

 

[Oldtractorfixer]

On the mower end disassemble the u-joint in-place on the mower. Get a two leg puller and hook to the holes. A good puller will have better pull than what you have done. (might be time to buy one at Harbor freight) or just rent one if you don't have one. If It comes great If it doesn't you can heat it with pressure on it. Even if you ruin the u-joint half you aren't out too much. On the other end remove the little clip and take out the spring pin and clean all that rust and mud. It will never work nice until you do this. A die grinder with a wire brush will help on the splines and then a small flat file will finish.
Don't forget to clean the splines on the tractor they probably have dirt and grease too. If it sticks on the tractor again a slid hammer works well there. I've tried some never-seize on the splines, it seems to work a little better than grease. I would like to know what others use to lube the PTO splines.

 

[bcp]

All of the mentions of hammering and vibrations make me think of using an air hammer with a blunt tip.

Northern Industrial Air Hammer Kit — 6-Pc. Set | Air Hammers | Northern Tool + Equipment

Bruce

 

[deezler]

Again, great advice. Thanks everyone.

I didn't have time to get to it last night, maybe tonight though. I do have an air impact hammer, and I went so far as to screw on the blunt tip hammer and start looking at places on the U-joint to apply some whacks before the sun set on me.

No splines on the mower input shaft, just smooth with a cross hole for the shear pin. So I am not too worried about nicking the mower input shaft a bit if I do have to cut off the coupler. Can easily die grinder it back to smooth.

Two-leg puller is also a great idea, don't have one, but seems like a useful tool to have in the toolbox. Slide hammer set, too. A trip to the local harbor freight might be in order....

 

[Redneck in training]

I would put it back on the tractor, block the mover blades so they couldn't turn and engage PTO. If the shear pin is broken it should slip and free itself.

 

[deezler]

Well that would definitely be the "redneck" way to do it, I guess. Haha, j/k. Can't say I didn't have that thought cross my mind. But since it is not pulling off easily, it is pretty stuck. Stuck enough that trying your method might break something more valuable.... me thinks.

 

[aczlan]

Well that would definitely be the "redneck" way to do it, I guess. Haha, j/k. Can't say I didn't have that thought cross my mind. But since it is not pulling off easily, it is pretty stuck. Stuck enough that trying your method might break something more valuable.... me thinks.

Might try putting the circlip back on the end and mowing some heavy grass to see if you can get it to slip... Less risk than blocking things in place that way (assuming that the shaft will extend now).

Aaron Z

 

[jmc]

On the mower end disassemble the u-joint in-place on the mower. Get a two leg puller and hook to the holes. A good puller will have better pull than what you have done. (might be time to buy one at Harbor freight) or just rent one if you don't have one.

Deezler,

I think Oldtractorfixer has the right idea, if for nothing more than the forces are countering each other rather than being transmitted on to the rest of the drivetrain.

On my yokes, the rim around the crossbar is pretty thin and could break if all the force is applied to one point, like with the foot of a store-bought puller. One cheaper and better trick might be to find a shaft the same diameter as the crossbar and simply drill and tap a cross hole at the shaft's midpoint. Run a long enough bolt thru it to reach the end of the implement's input shaft and tighten away. then sell the device to the next TBNer to post the same problem. Either way, if you're like me, you'd rather spend $60 on a tool than spend it replacing a perfectly good part.

John

 

[deezler]

Phewf! Finally got it off last night.

Might try putting the circlip back on the end and mowing some heavy grass to see if you can get it to slip... Less risk than blocking things in place that way (assuming that the shaft will extend now).

Aaron Z

Yeah, thought about that too. I don't have any grass to mow yet, though it is starting to grow with this crazy weather! I also don't have the circlip on the gearbox input shaft... not too worried about that though. After finding out how bad it was (see below) I don't even think that would have worked. it was LOCKED on.

I think Oldtractorfixer has the right idea, if for nothing more than the forces are countering each other rather than being transmitted on to the rest of the drivetrain.

On my yokes, the rim around the crossbar is pretty thin and could break if all the force is applied to one point, like with the foot of a store-bought puller. One cheaper and better trick might be to find a shaft the same diameter as the crossbar and simply drill and tap a cross hole at the shaft's midpoint. Run a long enough bolt thru it to reach the end of the implement's input shaft and tighten away. then sell the device to the next TBNer to post the same problem. Either way, if you're like me, you'd rather spend $60 on a tool than spend it replacing a perfectly good part.

Yep, I liked his idea the best too. While I would rather expand my tool collection also... money is tight and time is of the essence. Plus this existing shaft is not in good shape anyway - it didn't telescope very well, the u-joints were quite loose, the spring clip on the tractor end was all rusted up, and we cut off the guards... haha. So last night I did this to it:

After cutting through 95% of the coupler, it still wouldn't budge! ARG! Had to resort to an air hammer just blasting at it for a while before the coupler finally broke free. Of course, it still wouldn't slide off the gearbox shaft. Had to re-rig the tractor and really yank it still! unbelievable....

After getting it off the mower, you could see a significant amount of smeared material on the gearbox shaft. Had to get the die grinder out next to smooth it back out.

You can see I nicked the mower gearbox input shaft a bit, and also the gearbox housing. No big deal.

New shaft ordered! The saga is over for me, for now. (until I try to change the mower gearbox oil and sharpen the blades, anyway. ha!)

But yeah, sincere thanks fore everyone's helpful comments and to international for letting me hi-jack the thread. This forum rocks.

 

[OBWON]

So what is the best method to clean a PTO shaft and couplers on implements? I'm new to this and I cuss and swear every time!

Just bought an older PTO driven seeder/fertilizer that was VERY rusted. I just soaked in penetrating oil and sprayed lithium grease to get the shaft to slide in and out and soaked the coupler to get the push pin to work. Attached to my PTO with a lot of effort, used it, and took forever to get it off my PTO shaft. Ended up trying everything from chaining it up to my truck, spraying it with lithium grease, and after soaking for a while, used my pry bar and popped it off.

Other than putting a wire brush to it and greasing, what's the best method to make all of this easier? I'm breaking out in a helluva sweat just hooking stuff up....

 

[aczlan]

So what is the best method to clean a PTO shaft and couplers on implements? I'm new to this and I cuss and swear every time!
<snip>
Other than putting a wire brush to it and greasing, what's the best method to make all of this easier? I'm breaking out in a helluva sweat just hooking stuff up....

I would take it apart (pull the sliding parts apart, CAREFULLY remove the locking pin, etc), degrease them, then wirebrush everything, wipe it off with a damp rag to get the dust off and hit it with grease.

Aaron Z

 

[deezler]

From my (limited) experience thus far, it definitely appears possible that corrosion on either the tractor, PTO shaft, or implement shaft can create a situation where there is no more sliding clearance - I.E. the two parts have now become an interference fit.

So wire brushing off the flaky stuff may not be enough. If there is a harder, raised layer of corrosion, you need to get it actually ground off before things are really going to slide freely, whether using grease or not. A wire brush might be enough - but it also might not be. If the surface is still lumpy or pitted after wire brushing, my recommendation is to get out the air tools.

And then, yes, as aczlan noted, get the rusty dust OUT of the way before greasing, or else it will act like sand and contribute to high sliding friction.

 

[aczlan]

To clarify, by "wirebrushing" I meant using a wire wheel in an angle grinder on the shaft, in a bench grinder (if available) for the pin and a hand brush (or a piece of sandpaper in a dowel on a drill) to clean out the hole for the pin.
No comparison between a hand brush and a wire wheel in an angle grinder.


Aaron Z

 

[deezler]

Right on.