STONES: Scottish Wallers

DAP · Apr 22, 2004

With harv not doin all the wroughtn and now doin some geology ... the following came to mind.

I live in 'Old' america - the Hudson Valley region. This area, like the rest of New England has been farmed for 250 years now.

Since steel tube fencing was hard to get back then, most labored on making rock walls for boundries and containment and bravado.

I've got rock walls, old ones, some toppled, all over the place. There is a strange outdoor art museum in my neighborhood call Storm King Art center. The steel TBNers would love this place as it is full of free standing Industrial art (to put a name to it). It's on the net, with pics, so do a google search.

Anyway, one of the exhibits they have there, yes an exhibit, is a commissioned 1/2 mile serpetine standard rock wall that emerges and snakes from the forest into a large pond and out again.

The artist who designed this piece (in the 70's I believe) hired all of his 'wallers' from Scotland believing them to be the best craftsman of this sort.

Zen: each rock is 'observed', 'handled' and 'consulted' before it finds its role in the wall. Their work is outstanding (pun) and if I have the time, there are courses based on the methods of the Scots one can take to learn how to speak rock.

Sorry harv, but cuttin a rock for a spot in a wall would roll their eyes. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'll bet gettin to know some rocks Scotish-like would go a long way towards makin 'em something they aint.

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

EastTexFrank · Apr 22, 2004

There have been a couple of posts lately that have made me feel nostalgic and this is another. It may be time for a trip back to the old country to visit friends and relatives.

In Scotland it was known as a "dry stane dyke" ... just piled up stones and no cement. Building them is another of those skills that has almost disappeared. I've never seen one actually being built from scratch but as a kid I've seen them being repaired, usually from someone driving their car through it on the way home from the pub on a Saturday night. That was before drinking and driving laws became sssoooo strict. I must admit though, the only talking to the stones I can remember them doing was along the lines of, "OK you little booger, where are you going to fit?". Maybe I was just too young to appreciate the communing with the stones that was beyond my childish comprehension.

Egon · Apr 22, 2004

Building the stone walls also helped get rid of the rocks in the fields.

Egon

DAP · Apr 22, 2004

Frank, seems like I'm responsible for at least 2 of those posts!

Oops. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

OkeeDon · Apr 22, 2004

Not too many Scots around here. When I was building outdoor kitchens, the only people I would subcontract for a stone veneer were Italian. Joe d'Augustino did this one, and the rock waterfall in the background. I didn't think it blended well with the paver stone patio, but that's what the customer wanted. If you look real close, it has a flat stone countertop, too. This is veneered on top of a cabinet frame with a HardiPanel backer.

OkeeDon · Apr 22, 2004

He did this one, too, which, while a simple design, seems to blend well. We built the cabinets, hood box (to hide the ducting) and did the tile work.

Egon · Apr 22, 2004

There are times I'd like to build a stone cottage as in the attachment.

Egon

voodoo · Apr 22, 2004

Frank,
Hope you are aware that the best stone dyke walls are built in Ireland. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Some of the best examples are in and around the Mourne mountains. I've seen some of these with perfectly round boulders 3ft across, neatly set and running for miles.
I've attached some pics, but it doesn't really do the real thing justice.

voodoo · Apr 22, 2004

Pic No 2

voodoo · Apr 22, 2004

Pic No 3
Would you like to be building wall up this slope. Note that the rocks are growing out of the ground around here.
In some areas, the wall builders would build themselves stone shelters on site and live there until the job was done.
Oh and there were no Orange, blue, green or otherwise machines to help in the days these were built. Manual labour only.

voodoo · Apr 22, 2004

Last pic.

Unfortunately, the skills are being rapidly lost. Farming here is now becoming a part time occupation. Farmers need "day jobs" to make ends meet. The result, walls are not being maintained and ending up in this condition.

Junkman · Apr 23, 2004

On the road into my home, the sides are lined with stone walls. Most of the walls are falling down after decades of neglect. The property owners around here don't tend to the stone walls very often and a lot of them have been sold to city people that want stones to build their own stone walls. I don't know what the going rate is now, but I have heard that some people would buy a piece of land to sell off the walls and then resell it for what they had originally paid. I have lots of rocks, but no talent to build walls out of them. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

DAP · Apr 23, 2004

Here is the story of the Storm King Center wall, about a half mile of it.

Correction, the wall was constructed in 1997. I wasn't payin attention when I was there I guess. Harv and the rest of you fabricators, would certainly enjoy a visit to this place - lottsa steel, wood and rock - all transformed with a myriad of techniques.

That wall is almost 5ft high and about 3 ft wide. Seems like they use 3 rows of rock for thickness and I know the center row, not visible gets special attention and has special requirements that shore up the exposed sides. Again, there is no mortar of any kind.

EastTexFrank · Apr 23, 2004

( the best stone dyke walls are built in Ireland ) 

Strange, I was always taught that they practiced in Ireland before they came over to Scotland. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As for farmers needing "day jobs", unfortunately that's the case in a lot of places, including here. Only the larger operations can make a living at it. Unless you can find some niche to exploit I think the days of the small family farmer are pretty much gone. I think its passing, along with the sense of family and the values associated with it, is one of the sadder things associated with "progress". The one bright spot, as seen on this board, are the number of people who return to it later in life as a second career or hobby or those who want to get their families away from the big cities and all the problems that come with them. So maybe it's not all negative. I know when I drive around our basically rural county that there is a building boom. In fact, it's getting downright crowded with people moving out from the city (Dallas is about 100 miles away) and buying 5-20 acre lots. I just hope that that any profit is being made by the land owners and not some developer.

Kevin37 · Apr 24, 2004

I'm sure you've all heard it, but I'll post it anyway.

A local farmer won 20 Million dollars in the lottery.

At the press conference, the first question, of course, was What will you do with 20 million dollars?

Without a beat he replied: "I reckon' I'll just keep farming 'till it's all gone!"

Sad but true

Kevin

AMP762 · Apr 25, 2004

I've often said things to rocks in the field, but I've never had one to answer /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

MarkV · Apr 26, 2004

Dap, good subject! I will not enter the debate between EastTexFrank and Voodoo as to which country built the best stone walls but have had the pleasure to spend several weeks in both countries. It is amazing the stone walls you see when you hit the country roads over there. They go for miles and miles over terrain that can be hard to even walk. I understood that many of the walls were built in a way that would funnel the sheep to the village markets. I can also tell you that many of the walls are way to close to the road for those of us that drive on the wrong side to be comfortable. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

MarkV