Stay @ home dad

[newbury]

Welcome aboard.
How big are these garlic farms?
How much effort can you expend? If you can put in a good 10 hour day it's one thing, but if you can only work 4 hrs at a stretch the job takes more calendar days.

I'm an old retired guy so I am starting to view things in how many days at 4 hrs per day will it take me, versus my younger years when a 16 hour day was the rule. Since I work for myself the big difference is I tell SWMBO it will take 4 times as long.

Knowing little, but willing to learn, about garlic farming you need to educate us on your work parameters.

What loads do you need to lift?
Determines FEL capacity.
How much area (ha, acres) do you need to maintain with ground engaging equipment (plow, ripper, tiller)?
Determines weight and HP. If you need to plow 10 ha it will take twice as long as 5 ha or twice the plow.

Good luck.

 

[EddieWalker]

The cost of a tractor is based on HP, so you don't want to pay for more power then you need. Then it varies on attachments and how comfortable it is. Comfort, like a cab with AC is going to add a lot to the cost. A cab is nice if you are out in the heat or cold all day long, but isn't a big deal if you are only working a few hours a day. I'd love to have one but I don't want to pay for it so I get by without that little luxury. Then you have different types of transmissions. Some are easier, but that comes at a cost. Gear drive means pushing in a clutch and changing gears manually just like a car. That is going to be the most cost effective.

You listed a 4 ft rotary cutter. That will require a tractor with 25hp at the engine or 20hp at the PTO. That is a very small cutter and not very effective time wise. It's good to have a cutter that will cut as wide or wider as your tires. You are just throwing away money buying a 50hp tractor to run that small of a cutter. If you want the 50hp tractor, then you can easily handle a much bigger cutter. Maybe a ten foot batwing if you are cutting small stuff, or an 8ft for medium duty stuff.

Having a loader is going to be a must have. It will be the most used, gotta have thing on the tractor. You will use it for things you never imagined, and there is always a need for somebody to need some dirt moved or a burn pile pushed up or something heavy to be picked up and hauled somewhere. The list goes on and on. The 4 in 1 is a nice extra, but it's never going to be as nice as a grapple for hauling wood and debris. Having a detachable bucket and being able to switch to a grapple or pallet forks is where that loader really pays for itself.

I don't know what a rotary hoe is, so I can't comment on that.

The trick to making money is to offer what others need and then to do it in such a way that they want you back and they recommend you to their friends. Cheapest is only a way to get your foot in the door. For those who are looking to hire others, money is usually secondary to the quality of work you provide, and the ease you are to work with.

You have to be able to define exactly what it is you will do. Knowing this will allow you to zero in on what you need to buy to get it done. There are too many brands out there to tell you which one to buy. What really matters is where you will get parts and if you cannot do the work yourself, who will? If they are 4 hours away, it doesn't matter what brand you have. If you get a tractor from China for a great price but you have to wait for the next shipment of parts to hope you can get the parts you need, you won't make your customers very happy not being able to finish the job. When working for others, you need to have your tools ready to work every day!!!!!

How are you going to get the tractor to your clients farms?

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[Belloyowie]

Hi Newbury, thanks for the reply.
These garlic farms are mostly less than 2 acres. They are mostly hobby farmers or tree changers that have a small lot (not enough to run cattle) and are trying to fill a void for the lasted thing, Garlic. A lot of these people have sought organic certification or are in the process. This is a very "alternative area" and anything with "organic" claims a premium price.
4 hours a day a couple of days a week sounds about right where I am at due to health reasons and from gleaning information that is the average job preparing these small plots. Longer days would be involved with the slashing/land reclaiming (lantana, blackberries and small brush) but this will be organized on a job by job basis. This is a result from the city people moving here for the lifestyle and not realizing the effort it takes to keep grazing land clean and usable.
Lifting? I guess all I can envision is moving logs around or lifting large (strainer) fence posts so under 300kg. I guess anything bigger can be dragged or cut up with a chainsaw.

 

[Belloyowie]

Hi EddieWalker, thanks for the response.
Firstly in regards to the cab, god that would be a lovely luxury but I'm afraid its off the list already for 2 main reasons. First being initial cost and secondly due to the nature of the scrub/bush area that I would be operating in the cab would present clearance problems under and around trees. So even though the comfort factor would make longer jobs more comfortable and far less taxing it cant be.
A 5/6 foot slasher (heavy duty mower) is a must for reclaiming lost farm land and general slashing of pasture. A lot of this work will be done in scrub up to 1" thick in diameter and anything bigger I guess could be pushed over or lifted out with a 4:1 bucket (a use I just realised for it because of you, thank you).
As for the HP part of it, I have been advised by long time farmers in my area that the combination of having 4x4, the steepness of some of the country and the nature of the slashing/clearing/bed cultivation anything under 45HP will severely limit my job selection. The reason there is an opening in this area for this work is that there are more jobs than contractors doing them so they pick the cream and leave everything else as well as pick and choose the times they show up(the old supply and demand), so it is my intention to pick up some of this work.
As for a rotary hoe, I'm sure you know what one is but perhaps being in a different part of the world have a different name for it so I will add a short utube link to better explain. Apollo 35 hp tractor and Del Morino 4 ft rotary hoe. - YouTube
Why 4 ft? because thats the width of the beds that the garlic is grown in here locally, it allows for 4 plants wide which for the organic farmers makes hand weeding much easier than wider beds.
Next point you raise is I don't plan on hiring or growing this into full time work but quality is something that I am big on all the local people that know me are already very aware of this as it was their idea that started me down this path.
As for repair and maintenance on my machinery, I am capable of maintaining (was a boilermaker/welder before my accident) and there are tractor mechanics within reasonable distance that do repair and service all brands of tractors but seem to only sell Massey, New Holland or John Deer all of which to purchase new would put me out of the ball park straight up. I have been looking at Mahindra and Apollo tractors as they seem to be the best of the cheaper machines so far, but then thats why Im here, to find out for sure.
Lastly, I have a mate who has a tilt tray truck who will give me mates rates to move the machinery around. My initial plan is to just take work when I can then as I get a good reputation to save cartage do certain areas on certain weeks so the machine can be left in the area over night and driven to the next job.

Thanks for making me think more about some of these issues, its great to see someone asking me the same things I am asking myself. Makes me think Im thinking the right things.

Cheers

 

[brin]

Welcome and good luck with your venture....Take a look at this piece of equipment for your tillage and bedding...should be almost all you need...if you read about all the attachments available for this...

Keulavator Frame, 3-Point Cultivator, Garden Plow | Agri Supply, 51946

 

[Wagtail]

Thanks for the reply Wagtail, good to hear from a fellow Aussie.

I have given myself till Christmas to do all my research and fact finding as I can't afford to not get it right first time.

Is this HST like an auto box in a car? Sorry if its a dumb question but we don't have many dealers locally (only 2) to ask and they only stock the big named brands which when you add all of my wish list will come to over 60k and on top of that they all rubbish the opposition and big note their own product. I HATE THAT, its a sign to me they are insecure about their own product.

Going to take a run out to Agquip at Gunnedah NSW Commonwealth Bank AgQuip Field Days in August but that's a long way off yet and want to be equipped with enough info to pressure the sales guys and see what sort of deals can be done.

Do you mind if I ask what tractor you purchased and what your honest thoughts are? What could be improved and what works really well?

Cheers

G'day Mate, there are no dumb questions here. I've read the above responses (all great advice, as usual here at TBN ), so yeah, an HST is somewhat like an auto trannie in that there are no gears to shift. You have Low/Neutral/High, choose your revs and your speed is then dependent on how much you depress the accelerator. There's a separate pedal for going in reverse.

Here in Tassie I've yet to encounter one dealership bagging the competition, but we're a wee State and, as the old (but not untrue) joke goes, everybody knows everyone. :laughing: Reputation is king around here and word gets quickly 'round the station regarding honest deals AND after-market service. My JD dealership always has time for me.

As to what I bought... it's the 4105. Have a look at the specs at TractorData.com - information on all makes and models of tractors , in fact, that's a great site to compare all of the tractors you'll be considering. The 4105 is a modern basic tractor, meaning that it doesn't have all of the 'pretties' like a cab, cruise control, rubber deck mat, etc... But it comes in at less the cost of the top 3000 series and has a 41hp engine (which fits into your wish list). It can be switched between 2 & 4x4 at the raising of a lever.

In my opinion, the 4105 will handle everything on your implement wish list with no worries. I can attest to this as I run everything, except a ripper, that you want. I've got a JD 655 tiller (what you're referring to as a rotary hoe) and I have had zero problems or complaints with it or any other implement. Mind you, I have no other rig or experience with which to compare the 4105 to; particularly regarding what could be improved/works well.

As I mentioned before, talk to the old duffers in the area and at the pub as to the dealership with the best rep. Buying the best rig is important BUT dealership support is more important in the long run.

 

[kevinwak]

I run a 55" John Deere 655 rototiller behind my JD 2520. I believe it Is somewhere around 25 horse and it turns it very well, with no issues.

I don't have any experience with rough cut mowing/ shredding in brush, so I can't make any recommendations there.

Sent from my iPhone using TractorByNet

 

[IslandTractor]

Belloyowie, welcome to TBN.

I'll give you my thoughts in a moment but first, you should learn to navigate the TBN site and figure out the search function. I say this because there are 1) at least a handful of active Aussies on TBN who could share local knowledge and 2) many of the issues you will be addressing have been discussed here in detail so you could learn from those older threads by searching on various keywords.

I admire your gumption in taking on this project. It sounds like you have a generally workable initial business plan in trying to get smaller jobs bypassed by the bigger contractors and then building on that success. Good luck.

I have done similar work in reclaiming old fields and dealing with scrub brush and saplings. I suspect most here would agree that for more than a few acres, and certainly for commercial work, you would want to be using at least a six foot "slasher" or what we call generically a bush hog or rotary cutter. Although you might well graduate to larger equipment if the business takes off, I think you will find that any slasher over six feet wide gets real expensive real quickly so six foot is both the minimum and probably maximum size you would want to get. Even if you end up getting bigger equipment later, there will always be a use for a six foot slasher so it is not wasted.

A six foot slasher can be run by a 35hp tractor but is better handled by 40-50hp. I run a six foot flail and 5 ft slasher on a 40hp HST and find it perfectly adequate (5 ft slasher only because I bought it used, it would run the six just fine).

I run a six foot rototiller on my 40hp so a 4ft tiller would be easily handled by any tractor in the size range you need for mowing.

If you are clearing land you are inevitably going to run into things that you need to move so a front end loader is something you will want. Not necessary for maintenance mowing after the initial clearing but there are always things that are better dug out or pushed over rather than just run over with a slasher. Given that you may be lifting stumps and popping out trees by the roots, I would look for a FEL that has at least 2000lbs lift capacity at the pivot points. Mine has 2700+lbs and I've never regretted having at least that capacity.

You questioned whether a 4n1 bucket would be a good addition. I would reply maybe. I own one but it doesn't get much use because I find a true grapple so much more efficient when doing land clearing tasks. I use my 4n1 almost exclusively only when I have a backhoe mounted and am digging out stumps. That allows me to clamp and lift the stump, move it and then use the bucket to smooth over the hole. Smoothing out dirt is one thing the grapple doesn't do so well but otherwise I find the 4n1 an expensive and relatively delicate tool that is certainly useful if you can only have one implement or if you are a contractor operating remotely doing a variety of construction related tasks. However, for primarily land clearing usage I would rank it well below a grapple and even below a grapple bucket. You mentioned you were a welder and boilermaker before your disability. I don't know if you are still capable of fabricating with metal but if you are physically able then you certainly have the skills to build yourself a grapple. If you look closely you will see they are extremely simple devices and can be built out of 3/8" mild steel and a few lengths of 4x4x0.25 tubing. You could also buy or build just the upper jaw and attach it to the tractor standard bucket. Not quite as useful as a full grapple but much much more effective than just a plain bucket. Hydraulics can be run off the tractor's rear remote so no need to invest in fancy diverter valves or third function valves.

You asked earlier if HST was like automatic transmission. Yes and no. Yes it is simple and doesn't require shifting. No, it is not actually a series of self shifting gears. The important difference is that while it does rob a bit of engine power that a manual transmission does not, it is far faster to use in operations where you are maneuvering back and forth frequently. Also, pushing the pedal to the floor does not give the greatest power so it takes a little getting used to. Mowing and tilling do not involve a lot of back and forth but clearing land with a grapple etc does. I like my HST but with the tasks you are discussing a geared tractor may save you a thousand bucks or so. On the other hand, if your disability has anything to do with your knees or feet etc then the HST would be well worthwhile.

You mentioned Mahindra and a name I didn't recognize (?Apollo) which I am guessing is a Chinese made tractor. I know that JD and Kubota are also available down under. I have a Kioti and those are also available in Australia although I believe they use the name DaeDong rather than Kioti. From my experience on this board, I would say that any tractor currently built in either Japan (JD, Kubota), Korea (Kioti, DaeDong, LS, ?Mahindra) or India (Mahindra) are all worthy machines. I don't know what they cost in Australia but am pretty sure that the Japanese built tractors will cost more than the Korean and Indian and that the Chinese will be cheaper still. I know there are people who have had good luck with Chinese built machines but at this juncture there is no large stable Chinese company I can name that is the equivalent of the others named above. I would tend to stay away from Chinese for another 5-10 years though I'm sure they will eventually be very competitive.

You might consider used rather than new. Diesel compact utility tractors last a long time. 500 hours is barely broken in. 1500hrs is early mid life.

Good luck.