Starting problems for a NH 1715

[mikelh]

This may be a bit lengthy, so please bare with me. My 97 NH 1715 is having starting problems. About two years ago I went out to start it at an idle and it would not start. It seemed to be laboring because of the battery so I replaced the battery. It still would not start, just turning over and no fire. Out of desperation I pulled out the kill switch and tryed it and it attempted to start and then died. Just a note here, I had replaced the glow plugs, and put in new lines from the fuel tank to the glass fuel filter as well as replaced the filter. So anyway I tryed to start it again and it labored but finally started. Felt like the battery was running down, but it finally started. Another note here, this little tractor started first time every time at an idle. I used it and it ran like a top and then I parked it. The next time I went to start it the tractor would not start. At this time I took it to the NH dealer for examination. They checked the glow plugs which were fine. They checked the injectors which had some low pressures, so we replaced them. The also took the injector pump apart and put new seals in it and checked the operating pressures and they were fine. I went over to check out their work, and they informed me that it would now start everytime, but I would have to start it at full throttle and then slowly back it off as it warmed up. This seemed odd to me, but their explanation was that they felt the timing system was compromised. I have used the little tractor now for two years, in winter and summer and as I mentioned it runs fine and starts if I use a full throttle to start it. It is always plugged in when cold as I installed a block heater on it. Here's the thing, IF I do not get it started on the first try it will act like it is flooded(gas engine) and I have to wait for about a 1/2 hour and attempt it again and it starts fine. I know that you cannot flood a diesel engine, but that is what it acts like. Once again when it gets warmed up it is fine a runs like a million bucks. It only has about 800 hours on it, and I am puzzled by this. If the engine is warmed up or it is warmer out I can start it at an idle very easily. The warmer it is the better is starts. Well there you have it, I await any and all theories.

 

[mikelh]

Hey all out there in little big tractor land. I really need some help brain storming this problem. Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[mostly_gas]

Do you get any smoke during cranking when engine is not starting? Typically no smoke indicates no fuel, white indicates fuel present but not combusting well. Do you have a timer on the glow plugs or you just turn the key left until the indicator glows?

 

[skyhook]

Could be air intrusion, check all your fuel lines, even the return lines or....
could also be lack of turning power, next time you do a 'cold' start, have booster cables on the battery,
see if it starts better when boosted.

 

[90cummins]

Just because they replaced the glow plugs does not mean they are working properly.
Check the current or resistance thru the glow plugs to verify they are in working order.
Use a volt meter to check for a full 12 volts at each glow plugs when you heat it, also use the volt meter to see how long they heat on the timer.
These tractors start very good if the cranking speed is up there. My 1720 starts at idle fine.
Another thing you can do is check the voltage drop of both the battery cables, again using a volt meter.
Cranking speed is very important.
For lack of a volt meter you can check the battery cable connections for excessive resistance by cranking it for a while the touching the battery terminal and all other connections between the battery and starter and battery and ground point on the block.
If any connection is warm there is a problem that needs to be corrected.
It may be as simple as removing and cleaning the connections.
90cummins

 

[mikelh]

There is white smoke, which I will check out the low fuel problem. It blows out black smoke when it starts and will surge until it warms up. The surging goes away faster when it is warmer and as it warms up.

 

[mikelh]

Thank you very much for the thoughts. I did put a new battery in when I initially had the starting problems. That did not solve it, but I will check it again. Appreciate it very much.

 

[mikelh]

Thanks very much, and I will check this all out.

 

[mikelh]

The key on mine turns to the left and I hold it to the count of 60. There is an indicator on the dash with a glow coil in it. I can see the coil glow brighter as I hold the key. When my problems first started, I would hold the glow the key on and the coil would glow bright very quick. The tractor seemed to labor to start, which is when I replaced the glow plugs. Then the tractor started fine, but the coil took longer to glow. Everything seemed fine, and I was patting myself on the back for saving some dough. Then I started having the start problems at the idle. Changed out the fuel lines and filter, still nothing, then the battery and I got it started with a lot effort. THat is when I took it to the NH dealer. The installed a new injector rack at considerable cost and checked out the glow plugs for resistance and rebuilt the injector pump. That is when they told me it was probably the governor in the front of the engine.

 

[skyhook]

Sixty seconds on the glow plugs seems a bit long for me, that will take considerable "juice" from a battery.
Depending on the size of your battery, I would try doing a start with another vehicle "boosting" your machine. The faster she turns over, the better.
I have had similar problems on mine, when the temps were cold outside ( I have a volt meter connected on my machine, always, to know if its charging well or not) I would read about 12.3 volts on my battery,
I would then turn the glow plugs (thermistor in my case) on for about 20 seconds, the battery voltage would drop to about 10 volts, causing a slow turn-over. I then installed a "smart trickle charger", it stays on the battery always and its plugged in when the machine is not in use.
Now when i turn the key on, the voltage reads 14.3 volts and when I start the glow plugs, it goes down to 12.2 volts, she turns over faster and starts easier.
It made a huge difference in staring in cold weather.
Try it.

 

[mostly_gas]

Skyhook, older Shibura built Ford/New Holland tractors have slow glow plugs. 30-60 seconds in cold weather is the norm for these tractors that don't have timing circuit.

 

[tad240]

Just going to add to this thread based on my experience where my key switch was faulty causing a hard start. When the key was moved to the start position, the starter would engage and the engine rotated well; however, the fuel solenoid was not activating- so no fuel. But if I released the switch to the run position it would then activate the fuel solenoid and sometimes there was just enough momentum from the rotation of the engine that it would start. Drove me crazy figuring out that problem. Dealer told me I needed an engine rebuild due to no compression. That made no sense to me so after a bit of troubleshooting I recognized the switch wasn't activating the fuel solenoid in start position. Pulled the switch, opened it up and just put it back together "tighter". Think it had just worn a bit to the point some of the contacts were not touching. Removed the slop and it has worked perfectly since. Just thought I'd pass along that oddball experience, problem & solution. Never know who it may help.

 

[mikelh]

Just going to add to this thread based on my experience where my key switch was faulty causing a hard start. When the key was moved to the start position, the starter would engage and the engine rotated well; however, the fuel solenoid was not activating- so no fuel. But if I released the switch to the run position it would then activate the fuel solenoid and sometimes there was just enough momentum from the rotation of the engine that it would start. Drove me crazy figuring out that problem. Dealer told me I needed an engine rebuild due to no compression. That made no sense to me so after a bit of troubleshooting I recognized the switch wasn't activating the fuel solenoid in start position. Pulled the switch, opened it up and just put it back together "tighter". Think it had just worn a bit to the point some of the contacts were not touching. Removed the slop and it has worked perfectly since. Just thought I'd pass along that oddball experience, problem & solution. Never know who it may help.

Thanks for replying to this thread. I have been going nuts trying to figure this thing out. Dealer is telling me basically the same thing I am hearing from you. Where exactly did you find the fuel solenoid? I have followed the fuel line all the way from the tank to the fuel pump and I am not seeing what I would say is a solenoid. Mine is a 1715, which I can't say I know is close to a 1720. I am not a mechanic, but I am persistent to the extreme. My tractor runs excellent after it starts, I just have the surging(when it is cold and then subsides as it warms up. I also cannot start this at all if I don't get it started on the first attempt. I have to wait 1/2 hour or so kind of like it is flooded. I do know that a diesel cannot flood, so I am assuming there is excess fuel sitting on the pistons and causing this problem. Looking forward to a reply.

 

[Jerry/MT]

This may be a bit lengthy, so please bare with me. My 97 NH 1715 is having starting problems. About two years ago I went out to start it at an idle and it would not start. It seemed to be laboring because of the battery so I replaced the battery. It still would not start, just turning over and no fire. Out of desperation I pulled out the kill switch and tryed it and it attempted to start and then died. Just a note here, I had replaced the glow plugs, and put in new lines from the fuel tank to the glass fuel filter as well as replaced the filter. So anyway I tryed to start it again and it labored but finally started. Felt like the battery was running down, but it finally started. Another note here, this little tractor started first time every time at an idle. I used it and it ran like a top and then I parked it. The next time I went to start it the tractor would not start. At this time I took it to the NH dealer for examination. They checked the glow plugs which were fine. They checked the injectors which had some low pressures, so we replaced them. The also took the injector pump apart and put new seals in it and checked the operating pressures and they were fine. I went over to check out their work, and they informed me that it would now start everytime, but I would have to start it at full throttle and then slowly back it off as it warmed up. This seemed odd to me, but their explanation was that they felt the timing system was compromised. I have used the little tractor now for two years, in winter and summer and as I mentioned it runs fine and starts if I use a full throttle to start it. It is always plugged in when cold as I installed a block heater on it. Here's the thing, IF I do not get it started on the first try it will act like it is flooded(gas engine) and I have to wait for about a 1/2 hour and attempt it again and it starts fine. I know that you cannot flood a diesel engine, but that is what it acts like. Once again when it gets warmed up it is fine a runs like a million bucks. It only has about 800 hours on it, and I am puzzled by this. If the engine is warmed up or it is warmer out I can start it at an idle very easily. The warmer it is the better is starts. Well there you have it, I await any and all theories.

To start a diesel in cold weather, you need fuel that treated for the ambient temperature you are trying to start in, you have to have adequate air flowing into the engine as well as adequate fuel flow, you have to have a good battery that will give you good cranking speed and you have to have adequate compression and you may need a starting aid, which in your case is glow plugs. I prefer to have a block heater to warm the coolant and it helps not only the cranking process but also helps combustion start. I see you installed one so I gather you are using it..

It seems you checked out the fuel delivery system but not the air delivery. Is your air filter fairly clean? Adequate air is required for combustion and a clogged air filter will cause a "flooding" of sorts.

Are you using a winter grade diesel or do you have summer fuel in it? A clean fuel delivery system won't deliver gelled diesel fuel or fuel through an iced up filter.

Is your battery delivering adequate current to the starter to spin the engine over. Are the battery terminals clean and the chasis ground good? Is your starter in good condition?

What does your owners manual say about cold starting? Many manuals tell you to move the throttle lever to the mid range location during starting.

With 800 hours on the engine I doubt you would have a compression problem.

In cold weather (below freezing) with three hours of block heater time, our Ford and New Holland tractors start in a couple of turns. Our Kubota M4500 requires both the glow plugs and block heater to start in a couple of turns.

 

[tad240]

The solenoid I'm referring to is mounted to the bottom left of the injection pump if I recall correctly. (Sorry not at home near the tractor to confirm). Round cylinder with an electrical terminal. It's the solenoid that will kill the tractor. My ignition key switch wouldn't activate this solenoid in "start" but would activate in "run". Took me a while to figure out what was going on. Dealership never did. Good luck sorting this out.

 

[DieselBound]

Black smoke means there's enough fuel. I'm guessing that there's really no air blockage. What is happening is that you've got cold fuel and a cold engine and are not getting any, or not enough, additional timing advance to compensate. Not real familiar with tractor fueling systems, but with cars (I have TDIs) they have mechanisms to adjust timing based on fuel and engine temperatures: this, however, is managed via a computer (not like they are new cars, vintage is 2000).

Just musing...