Snowplow---Down pressure or Float

[PoleClimber]

I'm starting a project to mount my snowplow directly to the front of my TC35. I need to put a lift cylinder on it to move it up and down.Does anybody have any opinions or ideas on if I should mount the cylinder to create down pressure on the plow or to make it so it floats freely??? I am hooking the hydraulics into the loader controls and it has a float position but i've never used it. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Bernie

 

[bigpete]

Float--unless you have an absolutely flat, gouge-proof surface to plow

 

[PineRidge]

I think that if you use the float position you'll find a loss of steering. I'm thinking some flex between the plow and the loader would be best, then you can lower the plow to contact the drive and steering wouldn't be an issue. That way the plow can follow the contour of your drive.

 

[bigpete]

<font color="blue">I think that if you use the float position you'll find a loss of steering. </font>

PineRidge: The opposite is true for a front plow. A non-floating blade will vary the amount of weight on the front wheels causing a loss of steering ability when encountering pavement higher than the front wheels. When encountering down slopes or pavement lower than the front wheels, the plow will leave snow on the pavement. Essentially, when the fixed blade encounters an upslope, the front wheels get light or lift from the pavement or the blade gouges--one or the other. The plow will not follow the contour of the pavement unless it is floating. It will either be above it or trying to get below it, and rarely just in light contact.

You really do not want a non-floating blade for snow plowing on the front of any vehicle. You do want a fixed blade for grading soil and loose materials, though. Also, make sure there is a trip or spring trip for when that plow hits an immovable object /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[PoleClimber]

I haven't seen any up close ,but from the photo's on the new holland site they have a lift cylinder pointed straight down on the frame. It looks as though this would give down pressure all the time unless the loader valve was put in the float position. I couldn't find where New Holland offered a plow that would fully float. I'm thinking to that this might affect the steering. I have depth skidders on the plow ,wouldn't this be enough to keep the plow from digging in.??

 

[PineRidge]

<font color="blue"> PineRidge: The opposite is true for a front plow. A non-floating blade will vary the amount of weight on the front wheels causing a loss of steering ability when encountering pavement higher than the front wheels. When encountering down slopes or pavement lower than the front wheels, the plow will leave snow on the pavement. Essentially, when the fixed blade encounters an upslope, the front wheels get light or lift from the pavement or the blade gouges--one or the other. The plow will not follow the contour of the pavement unless it is floating. It will either be above it or trying to get below it, and rarely just in light contact.

You really do not want a non-floating blade for snow plowing on the front of any vehicle. You do want a fixed blade for grading soil and loose materials, though. Also, make sure there is a trip or spring trip for when that plow hits an immovable object </font>

Think I may have been misunderstood.

Here is what we said:
I think that if you use the float position you'll find a loss of steering. I'm thinking some flex between the plow and the loader would be best, then you can lower the plow to contact the drive and steering wouldn't be an issue. That way the plow can follow the contour of your drive.

If you look at the picture that we posted you will see that the blade does indeed flex on the plow mount/loader allowing up and down movement of the snowplow to follow the contour of the drive without loss of steering.

Here is what we meant:
If the loader is placed into float and the loader arms are allowed to contact the ground then steering loss will be an issue.

 

[thcri]

I don't know for sure if this is the same but I think somewhat it would? I use my FEL for plowing snow all the time. I have to use the float or I will loose my steering. Float allows the loader to move up and down with the grade. As the terrain changes so does my loader. There is enough weight on the loader to keep it on the surface, and more than enough weight on the tractor to keep the front end down. If I ever don't use the float then my front tires will come off the ground or the loader will thus leaving snow.

Must my opinion.


murph

 

[DavidVT]

Seems like several different mounting ideas getting confusing around describing down pressure and float. Speaking to only front mounted snow plows I believe we have tractor mounted and FEL mounted solutions.

Of those we have plows with direct hydraulic lift/down force and plows with some kind of chain plow lift that either lifts the plow or allows it to follow the contour of the ground. I'll call this CHAIN FLOAT which is similiar to truck snow plow configurations.

Of those mounted on FEL's, if the plow is fixed in the vertical by curl or dedicated non-floatable hydraulics, then the only float might be from the FEL being in FLOAT MODE. I might call this FEL FLOAT.

So, speaking to Down pressure of Float. If your plow configuration does not have a built in slack mechanism like a chain lift forcing CHAIN FLOAT, then you likely have the choice to:
1) apply down pressure to the cutting edge at the cost of taking weight off your front tires or
2)you can allow the blade or FEL to float allowing the blade to follow a rough surface better.

Surely there are more ways to do this also!

 

[beenthere]

If "FEL float" is used (FEL mounted snow blade) then it seems the skid shoes should be mounted on the FEL arms, or the arms will dig into the ground when in "FEL float". Some of these FEL mounted plows also have a carrier chain, so they get "Chain float" as well, and may not need the FEL float feature. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Normal truck mounted snow plows (tractor-mounted) only have a one-way ram to lift the plow, and a chain which is loose when the plow is down (aptly called "Chain float"). So no need to use the "float" setting when tied into the FEL hydraulic control. This is the way I use mine. The angle of the blade is connected to the 'curl' hydraulics function.

One (at least) member added a two-way ram to lift and lower his tractor-mounted plow, so he could have down pressure when he wanted it for dirt moving and at times when plowing stubborn snow or ice. Then likely he uses the 'FEL float" feature of his hydraulics.

Glad you were helping to sort out the confusion. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[PoleClimber]

I had my plow mounted on my FEL and I decided to make a mount to hook it directly to the tractor because it was hard getting around my place with the rear blade and the snowblade on the FEL. I decided to put a slip clevis on the plow frame in order to give me 3 inches of float on the plow. Now I can raise and lower the blade and have 3 inches of blade floating.(I hope thats enough float ??) Thanks for all the input. If it doesn't work i'll have to modify it as i go.

Bernie

 

[PineRidge]

Bernie neat looking setup. I'm not understanding how the blade moves up and down on irregular ground with the lift cylinder however. Would think the cylinder might restrict any free up and down movement. Am I confused? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[PoleClimber]

Here's a closeup of the part I made for the end of the cylinder to slide back and forth. When I let the plow down the cylinder has about 3 inches to float up and down, and if I want all down pressure I can extend the cylinder all the way down. I figure if this works I can have pressure down ,and I can make the plow float.I won't know until it snows.

 

[beenthere]

A one-way ram would have worked as well (at least for plowing snow), but your slip clevis is a good idea too.
To me, looks like your push arms are too high on the 'push' end, and the A-frame of the plow should (I was told) be parallel with the ground.
But as long as it works for you, that's great. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Ain't it great when we finally get the attachment that works the best, and don't stop half-way in between. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Deerlope]

Whatever happened to the KISS method. I have had a "chain float" snowplow on my FEL for many years and it has worked flawlessly. If I want to grade with it I will just remover the chain and replace it with a solid link. Maybe we should have a laser guide on these plows also.

 

[beenthere]

Deerlope
To each (of us), their own. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Glad you are happy with what you have, and I am with mine. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Great to hear how others fabricate their rigs too. I don't suspect there is 'just one' way to do it.

 

[Deerlope]

Thanks good buddy. I am always open to new ideas.

 

[PineRidge]

Now that I see your close-up it's a bit clearer. Please let me know how it works our for you once you have given it the acid test.

I'm also curious how long does it actually take to connect to the tractor?

 

[PoleClimber]

I have a rear blade to do my grading with. I wanted my front plow closer to the tractor so I could see at night better with the tractor lights and it 's so much easier to get this around driveways to plow snow. The height should be ok, I plowed with my truck before and it had oversize tires and it was the same height as the bracket on my tractor. Only time will tell.

 

[SkogenMe]

Possible to see a picture of the actual attachment to the tractor? I had a "chain float" setup on my old tractor that worked well for 10 years and was starting to construct one that connected to the FEL mount and the weight rack....but given that it isn't August anymore I am pushing that project to another time and I will just make a QA plate and run it on the FEL for this winter. Just curious about the attachment to the tractor because I stripped bolts out of the frame on the old setup....Hitting stumps in high gear make for good videos /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[keeney]

On my factory JD front blade, it has a direct connection between a dual-acting hydraulic cylinder and the blade vertical position. It can lift the blade or push it down in relation to the tractor. Also, by using the Hydraulic Valve Float (FEL Float), it can float, however, its a bit sluggish when the hydraulic oil is cold. On the order of a second or so to fall from the full-up position to the pavement.

The JD design has three or four quick-connects and pivots between the blade and the tractor frame. On mine, all these joints have worn to the point were there is enough lost motion that the blade can no longer generate down force below the level of the front tires.

This may seem like a good thing - built in permanent float. However, there are lots of times where I want to scrape the pavement extra-clean. Like to scrape off packed wheel tracks where the snow was driven on before it was plowed. Then, I really do want to put the full weight of the front of the tractor on the edge of the blade.

I ended up wedging a 2x4 between the tractor and the blade frame to restore some of the down-force range. I plan to make a permanent fix of some sort yet this fall.

Steering on my JD can still be accomplished with the split rear brakes even when the front wheels are completely off the ground. This is mostly used for minor corrections when pushing a long straight run with down-force.

One thing to note, its impossible to not subconciously turn the steering wheel the direction you want to go when the wheels are not on the ground. You always end up over-steering. Then when you do lower the front onto the ground, you take a sudden quick turn!

- Rick