Small Dozer Questions (Komatsu/Mitsubishi)

[rtimgray]

Hi guys – I’m thinking that I might be in the market for a small dozer. I’ve got about 140 acres of land, and about 25 or 30 of it is woods, the rest is mostly open fields and fence lines. For the most part, the fields are clear and can be maintained with my DK45 and bushhog. However, the woody areas are a different story.

The woods were logged-out about 30 years ago, and there are still some rotting dead piles and trees in there, and also lots of other trees that have fallen over the years. I would like to start cleaning up the woods and maybe even making some paths through them.

I’ve had about 30 or 40 hours experience on a Case 850, moving dirt, clearing fence lines and digging out the basement of our house. I took it into the woods when I had some time to spare (it was a rental), but it was too big to move around comfortably without hitting a lot of things I didn’t want to hit.

I’ve seen some posts about Komatsu D20 dozers and think that they might be ticket I’m looking for. The price range seems to be right (I’m looking for $10,000 to $15,000) and I think that they will have enough power for what I want to do. I’m not looking for doing the work quickly – I’m thinking over the course of several years. I won’t be trying to push down trees that are much taller than 20’ or bigger than 4 or 5 inch diameter (anything bigger than that and I’ll have to cut the trees into sections with a chainsaw to push them out of the woods to a burn pile).

What is the opinion on the Komatsus? I’m assuming that they are grey market machines – do they cross directly to models made for the American market? I also doubt that I’ll put more than 500 hours on it, so as long as the undercarriage is 70% to 80%, I doubt that I’ll have to worry with replacing it. Also, the only other dozer that I’ve seen advertised much is the Mitsubishi BDG2s (I think). They both claim to be 40 hp. Anybody know how they compare to each other? Also, does anyone know the difference between a Komatsu D20, D21, D20A-1, D20A-6, etc? Do the numbers refer to any particular features, transmission type, hp, year model, or what?

Any comments on powershift versus standard? The Case 850 was powershift and that would be my preference. Is anyone aware of any dealers near western KY (my location) that deal with either of these type dozers (or similar). Thanks for the help.

 

[GuglioLS]

Rtimgray,
I will answer the questions that I have first hand knowledge of. I am hoping others will reply who have more experience and knowledge. Eddie Walker has valuable experience, if / when he replies, I would value his opinion.

I recently purchased a D20A-6, for very similar purposes that you are wanting. With a little patients, skill and some blind luck, I believe it will accomplish the light tasks you have in mind. The D20 & D21 Komatsu's are 40 hp & relatively lightweight at 9000 lbs, which make it a very small dozer in comparison to the Case 850 you were fortunate enough to have operated.
The D20A-6 does not have power shift.

Some Komatsu's are grey market, some are not - I was told you can tell it's a gray market unit if all the writing on it is in Japanese such as the starter switch markings and the inside of the hydraulic filter door, there is a large chart with all kinds of info - mine is written in Japanese which makes mine a gray market unit. However, so far I have been able to get any part needed such as track rollers, muffler, Oil filter, Fuel filter, & Hydraulic filters. I gave several parts dealers the serial # and they said there was no difference between gray & US market in the parts I was needing - so far so good.
Some parts are listed on ebay, but I have been able to beat most eBay prices by shopping around with several dealers / individuals who have lower cost parts.

I had two of the blade cylinders rebuilt - (new rods & seals) at a local hydraulic shop, they were able to get the metric cylinder rods & seals no problem.

Click Here for a link to everything about my D20A-6.

Then Click Here to see the road building project it was used for.

As far as the difference between D20A-1, or -6 or -7, I will have to get my manual and take a look, if there is any relevant info I can find, I will post it for you.

Dealer Locator

I have several sources for parts. PM me if you need them.

Larry

 

[John White]

I cant give you a accurate assement of either one, but maybe soon. I just purchased a BD2J Mitbushi. It is in Okla. I am leaving Thur to pick it up. From what I have been told by dealers who sell both. The komatsu is eaiser to get parts for and about 4 to 1 in numbers, and eaiser to sell and will cost more also for the same year and condition. But most of the dealers I talked to felt that the Mitsbushi had a better engine, better dozer and eaiser to work on. Thats about all I know. Keep me posted as to what you do and in a week or so I will try and let you know what I think of the Mitsubishi. You can go to the other fellows post who has the little Komatsu and read more about what I posted.

 

[mike69440]

Just out of curosity, what would a 12,000 lb dozer in reasonable shape with say 4000 hrs but rebuilt udercarraige cost?

The reason I ask is that I bought an 18,000 lb. excavator with blade and thumb.

For clearing land would not an excavator with a blade & thumb work a lot better than a small dozer, except for fine grading which the excavator will not well do but a tractor with box blade could touch up.

Neither machine stands a chance against a large tree stump. I know the dozer is designed to push all day long, but the excavator could dig a hole and pull a large stump out and fill in that 6' deep hole reasonably fast with a lot less abuse to the drives than fighting the too large stump with a dozer.

The dozer would be the choice for small trees and brush. A tree gets really big enough in 10 to 15 years to stop a small dozer dead it its tracks.

 

[EddieWalker]

Based on your experience and knowledge of what you want to do, I'd say you have a pretty sound plan. I'm a big dozer guy, but I learned on a John Deere 450G that is around 70 hp. I've never ran a smaller dozer, so I don't know how they perform, but I can tell you that the Deere was on the small side to clear underbrush and saplings.

It took them down fairly easily, but where it lacked was having enough power to move the piles on the ground. It just wasn't big enough to move what it knocked down. Taking trees out is the easy part, cleaning up the mess is where you need the power. There is no such thing as enough power, but in your situation, size seems to be your biggest concern.

If I was looking for a small dozer, I'd consider Komatsu. Larry seems to be really able to get allot done with his, but I don't know if it can move brush piles very well. I think it's too small for your needs, but maybe something like a Case 350, Deere 450, Cat D3 or Komatsu D30. All are machines that you can get parts for just about anywhere.

Eddie

 

[rtimgray]

Thanks for the comments guys. I have not ruled out a Case 350/450 or other small dozer, it just seems they are much less common to find in decent shape than the Komatsu or Mitsubishi dozers.

I have no illusions of taking down large timber or pushing huge piles. I know exactly what Eddie is talking about from my time clearing with the Case 850. I could take down some tall trees, but I couldn't effectively push more than 6 or 8 of them at a time once they were on the ground (depending on their size, limbs, height, etc).

I cleared a fenceline last year and used a chainsaw to cut down the trees and then pushed them into a pile with my DK 45. I could cut down 3 trees and (these were 6" to 10" diameter, but probably 40 - 50 feet tall very few limbs as they were growing side by side in the fenceline) and then push them to a central pile with the tractor. I was able to use the loader to lift and roll the trees onto the pile. I'm hoping/expecting that I should be able to push a similar pile of trees with the 40 hp dozer. However, as I have mentioned, I'll have to cut most of the trees to no more than about 20' long to push out of the woods.

Again, thanks for the comments.

 

[John White]

I have owned a Case 350. I dont think I would consider it. The little Kmotasu or Mitbushi is just as big. The Case 350 does not have steering clutches only a steering brake, which just applies a brake when you want to turn left or right. In other words you cannot just disingage one track, you can only apply a brake to it to turn. This makes it hard to steer after a long day. The Kmotasu and Mitbushi have newer technoligies. Although they made alot of the 350 and parts are available. I was not happy with mine. If I remeber right the Case is about 39 hp and weighs about 9000 lbs. Mine did have a ripper on the rear which made it really nice for a small dozer. I miss that.

 

[tommu56]

rtimgray

Hurry time is running out.

one on ebay
Komatsu D10S Compact Track Loader Backhoe! NO RESERVE! - (item 180139681745 end time Jul-24-07 19:00:00 PDT)

tom

 

[bobwinner]

The Komatsu d20 line are manual shift regular transmissions. More work to operate, but better pushing power. The Komatsu d21 line are shuttle shift, more like an automatic tranny on a car. The a-? denotes models, with later numbers s meaning later models. d21 with numbers up to a6 have two levers to operate the blade, with the A7 marks the beginning of a joy stick operation. Some letter designations mean track type. The letter P is a wide track, some other letter probably means narrow track or rubber track. All D20 and D21 are great dozers, and are a little better that Mitsubishi. All are 40 HP, and weigh about 9,000 lbs. Hope that helps

 

[Taylortractornut]

Ive run and like both. Id probably take the standard shift as it would be easier to repair being without a TC or pumps and valves. I have a Most have dry steering clutches. I have a freind that uses one all the time thats I put a ripper and a brush rake on. For parts availability Id go with the Komatsu. I was practically raised on Komatsu equipment. The later Mitsubishis the BD2J has a pilot controlled blade. Here its hard to dig much with them. I really like them for finishing and spreading topsoil. Just do one thing if you plan to use either in the woods purchase an after market ROPS/FOPS. I had a friend spend 10 days in a the hospital after having his D21 in the woods. He bumped a tree and got lucky. THe fiberglass Canopy gave him a false sense of security and the got beaned in the head by a rotten log.

The second thing I d recomend doing is most dont come with a decelerator pedal. It makes sneaking up on something like backfilling or easing up to a tree. One that we rented from our dealer for a backfilling machine was heating the clutch up on the short forward and backwards cycles. I built a decel pedal for it to idle the engine before the reverse shift. One of the power shift models has the injector on the opposite side and I had to put it on the left like some of the old IHC machines came with.


I dont run much under a 450, D3, D39, class machine. It took a while to get used to the smaller machines lol. They are handy if you take your time.