Sluggish toilet mystery, round 2, expert help needed.

[N80]

A good while back I posted problems with the toilet in my log cabin that I built ten years ago. I did all the plumbing myself. It took forever to figure out the problem but it ended up that the Studor vent on the vent stack in the attic had stuck closed and there was effectively no vent. Fixed this and problem solved.

Now, years later it is sluggish again. Shower and sinks drain just fine. Use the plunger on the toilet and it will flush normally a few times but then goes back to being sluggish.

The toilet itself is probably 40 years old, appears to be in good shape and is not a low flow deal.

I tried to snake it from the bowl but cannot get snake around the bend.

Checked vent stack in the attic and it is clear all the way down.

Checked cleanout of main line to septic tank and it is clean as a whistle. Checked smaller cleanouts just above this (where sink and shower join the main drop down) and they are clear.

So the only thing I have not been able to visualize is from the main downpipe where sink and shower join, up through the toilet bowl.

I do not want to cut drop down from the toilet or the main stack to see/snake this short section (two bends).

So, it seems the only alternative is to remove the toilet, snake it and inspect it from below and then snake the drain pipe from above.

I really don't want to do this. Any other thoughts on how I might diagnose and solve this problem?

 

[jeff9366]

Roots can intrude into the slightest crack in PVC pipe as roots seek water during dry periods.

Sometimes the internal valves in toilets wear out or become intermittently inoperable due to mineral deposits. In theory they can be replaced but in real life it is most difficult to reassemble without toilet leaking. When I worked in plumbing we always recommended replacing the entire toilet rather than the valves as being the low cost solution.

New one gallon per flush toilets are as good as old five gallon toilets. I have Kohler CIMARRON toilets ($225 +/-) in my five year old custom home and both have been faultless. Almost everyone installs high 'handicap' toilets these days. The old, low, toilets are too difficult to rise from.

If you take off the toilet be sure to have TWO wax rings available. Do not torque down the toilet to floor bolts too hard, toilet bolts are engineered to snap before the porcelain will crack. If you decide to take up the toilet I would install a new one. Toilets do not last forever. If your floor is uneven you may wish to run a bead of clear silicone calk around base of toilet after installation.

 

[Loadstar]

Pull the toilet and check it out. Snake the pipe and blow it out with a garden hose. We do not recommend use of wax rings with plastic inserts. Get a couple as mentioned.

 

[RalphVa]

We had a sluggish one (among the 4 we have) here in the basement. It worked fine if I just dumped a gallon of water from a pail into it.

Had Tim the long time plumber came out. Main thing he found was just some pluggage in some of those little holes around the inside of the rim by particles that had grown in there (due to sediment collection over time). He broke apart the little particles (don't recall how he got to them behind the holes underneath there), and it works fine now. You can use some chemicals to dissolve them, but they may kill the bugs in your septic system.

Ralph

 

[N80]

Roots can intrude into the slightest crack in PVC pipe as roots seek water during dry periods.

Fortunately I do not see any roots anywhere but been there done that at other locations.

Sometimes the internal valves in toilets wear out or become intermittently inoperable due to mineral deposits.

This has been a problem but all I have to do is change the flappr valve. Everything in the tank works fine right now. Minerals are also building up in the bowl. Wonder if they are building up in the outlet channel of the toilet causing paper and such to hang up?

New one gallon per flush toilets are as good as old five gallon toilets.

We have one in the new bathroom at my house. It does work just fine.

The old, low, toilets are too difficult to rise from.

Not a problem right now but I'm not getting younger so that is something to think about.

If you decide to take up the toilet I would install a new one.

Agreed.

 

[jeff9366]

Fortunately I do not see any roots anywhere but been there done that at other locations.

I had several experiences where no roots were visible until the toilet was pulled, then, there they were…..

This has been a problem but all I have to do is change the flappr valve. Everything in the tank works fine right now. Minerals are also building up in the bowl. Wonder if they are building up in the outlet channel of the toilet causing paper and such to hang up?

Entirely possible.


Not a problem right now but I'm not getting younger so that is something to think about.

If you plan to sell during your lifetime you want high toilets when showing the house.

 

[kenmac]

Nothing wrong with a 40 yr old toilet. They haven't changed much in the last 40 yrs. Possibly something stuck in the S bend of the toilet. I have found clothes hangers, toys, among other things stuck in the S bend. When you remove the toilet, look underneath in the S bend.. Only remove the toilet after you have made sure that the AAV isn't the problem

 

[Egon]

Golly, I had the same problem with a toilet. Put in a new one and same problem. Then one day it suddenly started working properly. No idea??

 

[jeff9366]

The toilet itself is probably 40 years old, appears to be in good shape and is not a low flow deal.

Forty years is REALLY OLD for any gravity feed mechanical device with multiple organic rubber seals and gaskets.

Buy a new toilet.

Display the old toilet in your yard.

 

[nybirdman]

I would agree ,purchase a new one.I went thru the same thing,mineral build up over the years in the toilet it self.I would recommend the Kohler Cimmeron alsnly 1.28gal./flush.