Shopping advice CTL vs TLB

[matt777]

Hi Everyone,

I recently bought a 50+ acre property in central California and I'm looking for a single piece of equipment that will handle most of what I need. The land is rolling hills, rocky, loosely covered with scrub oaks and pines, with some areas grassy. I'd like to build roads, trails, surface ditches, retaining walls/terraces/planters, remove trees and brush, mow/brush hog, trench for irrigation/electrical, etc.

I'm trying to decide between a CTL such as a Cat 299, Deere 333E, etc., or a TLB like a Case 580, Deere 110, 310, Cat 422, etc. These models are to give an idea of the range I'm considering, but ultimately I hope to buy a used machine with 2-3k hours and will look for a good value.

I settled on this range because I'd like weight and power for digging, clearing trees and brush, and moving large rocks or stumps. I'm also paying attention to hydraulic flow for attachments.

I'm writing to ask for people's impressions about the range of attachments available to these two styles of equipment. There is a huge selection of "skid steer" attachments that i guess would easily go on a CTL. So one question is:

1) How easily can "skid steer" hydraulic attachments be fit to the front end of a TLB like the Deere 110, Cat 422, etc. How would I know or what would I look for in the specs? Currently I am only looking at hydraulic flow and HP. Do I just get a plate that bolts onto the loader?

2) A related question is how easily can the backhoe be removed from these TLBs, and can a 3-point PTO attachment be mounted in its place? What about something that mounts to the 3-point but is powered by hydraulics?

Finally, 3) Would it make sense to mount certain attachments to the backhoe? For example, given the choice between a "skid steer" auger attachment and an auger that's meant for a backhoe, which would be preferable? Would they be interchangeable with the right 3rd party adaptor?

The attachments I'm considering are: chipper, flail mower, auger, grapple, (maybe) stump grinder, (maybe) forestry mulcher, and box blade.

4) What else haven't I thought of?

Thanks for your consideration!

 

[oldnslo]

Unless things have changed a true TLB like you are looking do not have detachable backhoe and do not have 3 point or PTO.

Front loader might have a high flow option for running implements but would be an option not a standard feature.

 

[two_bit_score]

'm trying to decide between a CTL such as a Cat 299, Deere 333E, etc., or a TLB like a Case 580, Deere 110, 310, Cat 422, etc. These models are to give an idea of the range I'm considering, but ultimately I hope to buy a used machine with 2-3k hours and will look for a good value.

There is a large difference in a JD110 TLB and the other TLB's you mentioned. THe 110 is a versitle machine but it's not on the size or power level of a 310. It's also no where as strong as a JD 333 CTL. Apples to grapefruits.

I initially thought the CTL like the JD 333 would be a good choice for you with all the things you want to do until I noticed you said your ground was "rocky". CTL tracks are rubber and rocky ground can be hard on them.

Have you looked at a Bobcat Versahandler?

https://www.bobcat.com/na/en/equipment/telehandlers

I don't have one and I've never used one. But a guy on here has one and is a big proponent of them. @Xfaxman are you listening?

 

[matt777]

Thanks for the pointers.

Regarding telehandlers, the Bobcat TL519 weighs 9898 lbs with 74 hp and 21 aux GPM, so it's in the sweet spot. It seems like the shift to "ground engaging" telehandlers is somewhat recent, so I might be priced out of the used market, but I will keep looking.

Regarding the ground, there are rocks, but most areas are dirt. I wouldn't use it to climb boulders, but I would drive over the occasional low outcropping. If wheels are preferable the JD 326 looks promising.

Regarding the JD 110, it seems to have it all if it was more powerful. I watched a video of a guy switching from mower to backhoe in about 10 minutes. If I went with something more like a "true TLB", I guess I would give up PTO attachments, but gain the flow to do front end attachments, and this might be the best case.

Please let me know if you think of anything else.

 

[D&D]

Thanks for the pointers.

Regarding telehandlers, the Bobcat TL519 weighs 9898 lbs with 74 hp and 21 aux GPM, so it's in the sweet spot. It seems like the shift to "ground engaging" telehandlers is somewhat recent, so I might be priced out of the used market, but I will keep looking.

Regarding the ground, there are rocks, but most areas are dirt. I wouldn't use it to climb boulders, but I would drive over the occasional low outcropping. If wheels are preferable the JD 326 looks promising.

Regarding the JD 110, it seems to have it all if it was more powerful. I watched a video of a guy switching from mower to backhoe in about 10 minutes. If I went with something more like a "true TLB", I guess I would give up PTO attachments, but gain the flow to do front end attachments, and this might be the best case.

Please let me know if you think of anything else.

You might look at the Kubota M59/ M62 vs the JD 110. I would also look at the jcb side entry skidsteers. Wheels vs tracks, ctl vs tlb, there is not a one size fits all.

 

[ruffdog]

I think the neighbor has a Cat TH460 B and he loves it. He has been an excavator his whole life and the telehandler is very versatile.

 

[matt777]

@D&D the Kubota M59/M62 is a great suggestion. For the M62: 8924 lbs, 63 hp, 31 GPM with PTO and 3PH (so clearly the backhoe is removable). This would probably meet all of my needs if I could find a used one in the 3000 hour range.

RE the JCB skid steers, the 300/300T is in the right range with the choice of tracks or wheels. Do you think the Kubota M62 could run the same attachments as the JCB 300? This might be where the trade-off comes in.

@ruffdog Can you give more description? The Cat TH460B looks like a great choice, and they seem to last forever with many listed over 10,000 hours. I found an encouraging video of a telehandler running a trencher here:

I would love to hear about a forestry mulcher or chipper on a telehandler.

 

[ruffdog]

@ruffdog Can you give more description? The Cat TH460B looks like a great choice, and they seem to last forever with many listed over 10,000 hours.

After he got the TH he sold his wheel loader. He has big forks, bucket, grapple, work basket, for it but I've never seen him run any hyd motor with it. Maybe his doesn't have the extra hyd capacity????

 

[4570Man]

A CTL is a way better loader than a backhoe is. The downside is the CTL can’t very well do backhoe jobs and the backhoe obviously can. A Deere 110/ Kubota m59 is a long way apart from a real backhoe like a Deere 310. The little backhoes have factory installed skid steer couplers on the loader. They both have factory installed 3 point hitches. It’s not a big deal to swap out the backhoe and use them. Some of the newer model backhoes have quick attach buckets but the old ones with appealing prices basically never did. You’d have your work cut out for you trying to convert one. The backhoes on the full size ones aren’t removable.

 

[rScotty]

Hi Everyone,

I recently bought a 50+ acre property in central California and I'm looking for a single piece of equipment that will handle most of what I need. The land is rolling hills, rocky, loosely covered with scrub oaks and pines, with some areas grassy. I'd like to build roads, trails, surface ditches, retaining walls/terraces/planters, remove trees and brush, mow/brush hog, trench for irrigation/electrical, etc.

I'm trying to decide between a CTL such as a Cat 299, Deere 333E, etc., or a TLB like a Case 580, Deere 110, 310, Cat 422, etc. These models are to give an idea of the range I'm considering, but ultimately I hope to buy a used machine with 2-3k hours and will look for a good value.

I settled on this range because I'd like weight and power for digging, clearing trees and brush, and moving large rocks or stumps. I'm also paying attention to hydraulic flow for attachments.

I'm writing to ask for people's impressions about the range of attachments available to these two styles of equipment. There is a huge selection of "skid steer" attachments that i guess would easily go on a CTL. So one question is:

1) How easily can "skid steer" hydraulic attachments be fit to the front end of a TLB like the Deere 110, Cat 422, etc. How would I know or what would I look for in the specs? Currently I am only looking at hydraulic flow and HP. Do I just get a plate that bolts onto the loader?

2) A related question is how easily can the backhoe be removed from these TLBs, and can a 3-point PTO attachment be mounted in its place? What about something that mounts to the 3-point but is powered by hydraulics?

Finally, 3) Would it make sense to mount certain attachments to the backhoe? For example, given the choice between a "skid steer" auger attachment and an auger that's meant for a backhoe, which would be preferable? Would they be interchangeable with the right 3rd party adaptor?

The attachments I'm considering are: chipper, flail mower, auger, grapple, (maybe) stump grinder, (maybe) forestry mulcher, and box blade.

4) What else haven't I thought of?

Thanks for your consideration!

We had the same sort of work to do on our property. After having some experience with CTLs and lots with tractors and TLBs we chose the TLBs. Right now have a Kubota M59 bought new in 2008, and a Deere 310SG bought used 2014.
Both are excellent, strong, & durable. I am older, and like my comforts. the M59 has a thumb and optional 3pt. The 310 has a large cab with heat and AC. Cab is big enough for a dog and buddy seat.

We enjoy doing our own landscaping, design, and building - but just for ourselves and friends. We do other things professionally. So tractors are now just a hobby for us. Being rural folks, we've had about a dozen tractors through the years.



To your questions:
1. Attachments: TLBs generally can use the same attachments as Skid Steers do. In fact the M59 has a skid steer quick attach plate as part of the standard FEL, and decent front remote hydraulic flow. So any attachment that will work on a CTL will work on the M59 as well - with the exception of hydraulic flow rate. More flow rate is available, but needs to be run off the M59's PTO hydraulics.
The Deere 310SG does not have the adapter plate for CTL accessories. It is available, would have to be added. Cost is about 1K. The 310 has huge high flow hydraulics.

2. Removing BH & 3pt. The M59 backhoe can be removed and the Cat. 2 3pt hitch mounted. Takes about 30 minutes doing it without fuss. Hydraulic outlets are the same as on any tractor with rear remotes.... or front remotes for that matter.
The Deere 310SG backhoe is NOT removable. There is no 3pt. It is a purpose built machine, and much more heavily built than the M59. The M59 is the 60 hp Swiss Army knife of tractors, the 310 is twice as powerful.

3. Other Attachments. The backhoe buckets on both TLBs are themselves quick attach type with extra hydraulics. That means a variety of buckets as well as other attachments can be quickly mounted to the backhoe boom. That option is not available with the CTL. Things like posthole diggers, clamshell grabbers, breakers, cutters.... flails...etc.
Backhoes also make excellent cranes for moving things. In fact, we use that feature of the BH more than we dig with them.
Either machine will run most rental attachments.

4. Things Not Thought of: CTLs have better traction, but you sit low and have to get into them by crawling over the bucket. You eat a lot of dust when working.
TLBs have you sitting above the work and looking down. Traction is not as good as a CTL - even though both TLBs are 4wd.
We sometimes hop on and take our TLB a few miles down the road to town or to neighbors. Traveling any distance like that on a CTL is a non-starter.

The M59 doesn't have the power of the CTL. It only lifts 4000 lbs in the bucket, but does have a 6 speed HST.
The Deere has plenty of power for everything. Roughly double the capacity of the M59. Lifts over 8000 lbs.
For getting into or out of a tight spot, either machine can lift itself with its backhoe.

Things not considered... I love the open cab on the M59... in the spring, summer, and fall. Winter not so much. Wish I had bought a thumb for the JD310SG. A BH thumb is so versatile it almost doubles the usability.
Why two? Well, we have a lot of dirt & rocks that need moving. The M59 with its backhoe can load up the 310 FEL bucket. The 310 then becomes our dump truck for moving dirt and rocks while the M59 is the more precise machine for spreading dirt or placing rock walls.
luck.
rScotty