Setting tires out wider

[jcummins]

I have an M7040 with R4 tires, wheel weights, and loaded too. This tractor is fairly stable.....but.....i have a neighboor with an M9540, who set the wheels out and he said the difference was very noticable. He help me put together this afternoon a flail ditch mower, which can be swung out in its entirely to the side of the tractor. My purpose is pond dams, and wet areas where the tractor cannot go. He said he most definitively would set the tires on my M7040 out. SO I'm considering doing that.

The rears we understand how to do. The fronts are a little different. It appears we just move to the opposite side, with one gotcha. The valve stem now outside would go instead and they have a protective cirle piece welding around them. Is there room for that to clear the front hubs. Seems iffy. If that hits how can I do this? Pics below. Posted one of the ditch mower to.

 

[newbury]

I have an M7040 with R4 tires, wheel weights, and loaded too. This tractor is fairly stable.....but.....i have a neighboor with an M9540, who set the wheels out and he said the difference was very noticable. He help me put together this afternoon a flail ditch mower, which can be swung out in its entirely to the side of the tractor. My purpose is pond dams, and wet areas where the tractor cannot go. He said he most definitively would set the tires on my M7040 out. SO I'm considering doing that.

The rears we understand how to do. The fronts are a little different. It appears we just move to the opposite side, with one gotcha. The valve stem now outside would go instead and they have a protective cirle piece welding around them. Is there room for that to clear the front hubs. Seems iffy. If that hits how can I do this? Pics below. Posted one of the ditch mower to.
<snip>

This is how I change my fronts on M4700:

 

[jcummins]

Front rims are not two piece rims.

 

[RickB]

They will probably clear especially if swapping them side to side increases the track width. Best thing is to take one wheel off, reverse it on the same side and bolt it up with two or three lugs. Rotate it by hand and check the valve stem clearance. If it clears, swap it to the other side and bring that one over to the side you started on. Use what you have at hand to answer your own question.
Increasing the front axle track width does little to increase stability.

 

[jcummins]

Wondering if I should just leave the fronts alone. Putting that valve stem inside poses checking and airing the tire.

 

[oosik]

I would not worry about widening the front tires and it looks very much like the valve stem protective circle would make contact with the lower part of your front axle drop gear housing. OK - if your rear rims are like mine there are six settings from narrow to wide. I certainly would want some kind of lift and a helper to do the rear tire widening.

You know the rear, being filled, will be heavy. Mine weigh around 1100# per tire when you consider the rim, the tire and the RimGuard. Be careful.

 

[Fallon]

Only the rear axle/tires on a tractor affect stability. The fronts are on a pivot. So they dont affect stability until it pivots over to the stops. By the time it hits the stops there is enough momentum and/or its tipped far enough you are already in trouble.

So wory about widening the rears, not the fronts.

 

[Dan33Klein]

^^exactly

 

[JWR]

Only the rear axle/tires on a tractor affect stability. The fronts are on a pivot. So they dont affect stability until it pivots over to the stops. By the time it hits the stops there is enough momentum and/or its tipped far enough you are already in trouble.

So wory about widening the rears, not the fronts.

Fallon is spot on. Forget the front widening. I certainly advocate widening the rear wheels as much as you can, restricted potentially by other factors. Usually the widening is needed for those working steep ground but boom cutters and anything with significant side loads would be good reason also. I use 6 inch Bora brand spacers on a smaller Kubota B2150 and they made a huge difference -- daylight and dark. Folks who rent my pasture have an M6040 as well as an L3400. They run 6" spacers on both those Kubotas mainly for stability and comfort on steep ground. Pictures of these two below.
Notice the ones they use are 2 different designs. There are several good ones.

Looking at your photo of the side mounted flail mower, it does not look like an extreme side load case BUT I'm betting you will be much more comfy using it with the wider rear tire spacing.
I run a MF2660 with a 17' articulated boom rear mounted cutter (rotary, not flail) and it is my extreme case of need for wider spacing. My rears are 8 feet apart at outer edge of tires and in many spots that is not enough. Limits me on where I use the tool.

 

[jcummins]

Fallon is spot on. Forget the front widening. I certainly advocate widening the rear wheels as much as you can, restricted potentially by other factors. Usually the widening is needed for those working steep ground but boom cutters and anything with significant side loads would be good reason also. I use 6 inch Bora brand spacers on a smaller Kubota B2150 and they made a huge difference -- daylight and dark. Folks who rent my pasture have an M6040 as well as an L3400. They run 6" spacers on both those Kubotas mainly for stability and comfort on steep ground. Pictures of these two below.
View attachment 567018 View attachment 567019 Notice the ones they use are 2 different designs. There are several good ones.

Looking at your photo of the side mounted flail mower, it does not look like an extreme side load case BUT I'm betting you will be much more comfy using it with the wider rear tire spacing.
I run a MF2660 with a 17' articulated boom rear mounted cutter (rotary, not flail) and it is my extreme case of need for wider spacing. My rears are 8 feet apart at outer edge of tires and in many spots that is not enough. Limits me on where I use the tool.

The mower weighs 1669 lbs, and the entire mower can be swung outside of the rear tires.

I will try the mower first before any change. Since the tires are loaded and i have wheel weights...it may be fine. I have some suitcase weights that i 'may' hang of the left side of the three point frame of the mower. I'd have to fab up some kind of mount to hang them . I'll know in a week or so how it goes....we've got 3 day rain event right now.

 

[ovrszd]

I prefer the inside of my fromts be aligned with the inside of my rears. Noticably improved traction in soft ground.

I would suggest going to a wider setting in the rear regardless of the mower. It'll ride and handle better. Your friend is right.

 

[jcummins]

Well had a break in the rain so I mowed a bit....I have a diverter value on the back and the mower is controlled by one lever...with a button that switches the valve. That setup is a bit touchy with this mower. Once I get use to it, it will probably be ok, but working the hydraulics in the wrong direction is very very easy to do with my setup. I may change things, not sure yet, because of safety. On probably the steepest part next to the pond, I lifted the mower instead of adjusting it down....and got the tractor really light. Think I will be tweaking the flow control valve a bit. For the most part just getting use with the controls so it becomes more natural. Cut by the mower was quite good. I was in near yard quality grass to a water grass that was twice as high as the tractor...it did knock it down more than cut it...just too tall. Also through woody Autumn Olive and it took it right out. I'll be cutting that type of stuff in the vertical mode too.

One point on putting the tires wider.....it puts the tire closer to the pond edge or wet areas do to the reach of the mower. That is not desirable. So some trade off. But this mower does reach out further than the batwing did.

 

[JWR]

jcummins: May I ask -- what brand/model of cutter do you use ? I have both a flail mower (ancient Alamo with a state road suspected history...) and bush hogs. I had not heard that the scourge of Autumn Olive was in Illinois too ! Virtually every "old farm" in the state of WV below 3000' altitude has been taken over by Autumn Olive. The things will literally grow 4' or sometimes more in a single season, are spread endlessly by birds eating the berries, etc. My flail mower is fine on anything under 2" thick (first year autumn olives are easy) but if I accidentally get a post or thicker limb caught up in it (or a big rock of course) it tears out a flail set and I'm forced to replace the missing flails. The bush hog is far better where you have risk of larger material being encountered. There are of course MANY varieties of mowers with side reach for pond banks and the like. I assume you researched that before your selection.

By the way, more to the OP topic, setting your tires out 6" wider on each side will be negligible in terms of how close the tire is to the edge of a pond or whatever. Six inches in that context will never matter to you. The benefit of the wider stance of the tractor on the other hand is huge in its' effect.

 

[jcummins]

BCRI200 from Nova tractor...sold far more in Germany than here Chinese made. They have a BCRI220 that is 6 inches longer but out of stock. Honestly the 200 is about as big as you should go with 70hp tractor. Not for the power but the weight. The biggest I have thus far gotten into was 2"+. Made a lot if noise but seemed to do it.

Can mow from 90 deg vertical to 60 deg down. Here to tell you...put it at a 45 deg and extend out....a lot of pressure from the weight on tractor and 3pt. I of course would not mow like that, was just testing. Mowing most likely will be with roller on the ground...or with the unit vertical for trimming trees/brush...got several places I want to do that.

With my neighbors help who made the suggestion, and has set out tires more than once, i probably will set them out.

 

[JWR]

jc --studied the BCRI 200 -- you have an interesting machine. Probably going to do a lot of valuable work. I note these are usually sold with hammer type flails (which will cut heavier material than using thinner 2-piece Y-style cutters that I have on my Alamo.) Let's say the wheels/filled tires weigh around 1100lb each as another poster suggested. Seems high, but may be. If you move the wheels 1ft further apart (6" each side) then you will have moved the pivot point for tractor turnover torque by 6" and moved the lever 6" longer in the other direction to the far side tire. That's 1 ft longer total lever for the 1100 lbs left tire and means 1100 ft-lbs more torque in your favor for avoiding "tipping" the tractor. I'd sure do it (supporting what you already said you will likely do.) The pair of 6" spacers I bought from Bora cost about $520.

 

[jcummins]

Yes....and there definitely is a learning curve operationally with this. Part of the issue is the diverter valve.....my finger can come off the button, then the valve changes operation. I need to change the button to simply off or on, with no spring returning to center...making operational type mistakes with it the way it is now, enough so, I know I need to change something.

I got it into a stump filled bit of weeds today....was starting to be too much. A lot of banging around, some wood flying. I need to raise it, and not run on the roller in places like that.

Question for anyone reading this thread. On one pond dam, I've got a moderately long slope. I mowed side hill on this with the batwing. At the top, I'd have this ditch mower below the tractor....also at the very bottom, it would be below do to a wet area. What would be the preferred placement of the mower relative to the tractor in the middle of the slope. I could have it above, directly behind, or below.

BTW this mower has the hammers.

 

[JWR]

jc - I feel like I am butting in and do not mean to do so. Most people reading this will not be familiar with the BCRI mowers that allow you to run with it in multiple center or right side positions relative to the tractor. [most such mowers do not have that feature.] In looking at the Bowell webpage at https://bowell-tractor.com/FLAIL-MOWER/Bowell-BCRI-220-CAT-II-embankment-flail-mower-heavy-duty-6601.html it seems you could run with the cutter offset to the right (going either way across the slope) and could run with it directly behind the tractor.

So being talkative here, my comment is I don't think it will matter much (upper lower or centered) provided that your are very comfy with the mower on the lower side. However, being old school and having spent a lot of time on an old 2wd where it was a major factor to keep the cutter bar on the upper side... I would PREFER myself to cut with the flail on the upper side on any significant slope except where I was "forced" to put it on the lower side (like you say, at the wet pond edge, or when the mower is down-angled on the slope on your first pass at the very top.)

 

[jcummins]

I was thinking the same way. Takes a little experimenting but very cautiously.

The one thing that could bite you is adjusting the mower on a slope while moving and you stupidly move the lever the wrong way. I need to adj some things to minimize that. But have found the hydraulics move things....fast.

Bowell is Nova Tractor just the company name they use in Europe. Believe they also have Victory as a company name.

 

[thirdroc17]

It appears you're offsetting the mower both ways, if so, this won't help you one bit. But I think I'd restrict the offset of the mower to one side only, and run a counterweight out the other. That is the norm around here.

 

[jcummins]

No it offsets just to the right side.

I have set the rears out to widest position. Haven't had a chance to use yet with mower. In normal use, not noticing any real difference. The fronts I have left alone, have no intention of setting them wider.