Scorecard:: Clay & Sub-Soiler: 2, Tractors: 0

[Bob_Skurka]

Ok, I know I'm far from the brightest bulb, but exactly where is TIM THE TOOLMAN TAYLOR and his MORE POWER THEORY when you need him???

Last night I went out with a sub-soiler to dig a trench about 50' long to bury an electrical cable so I could FINALLY wire my daughters playhouse (pictures in the photo section). The playhouse was finished late last year, but I never got around to hooking up the electrical wiring so she could power a fan or tv or the lights.

So I went out with my trusty sub-soiler last evening. It was originally hooked up to a TC24D and I set the 3pt down all the way and started driving. Got a few inches and the tractor simply came to a stop. Pulled up the 3pt to about 1/2 depth and was able to make about 25' and again the tractor is stopped. Kept working this and basically kept stopping the machine. So I switch to the B2910, it weighs a few hundred pounds more and has a larger engine. Basically to make a long story short, same results.

NOW I HAVE HEAVY CLAY. We can't dig into the ground when it is dry with a shovel. But the ground is not dry, nor is it wet, it has a moderate amount of moisture in it. It has not rained in over a week, but the clay sticks to a shovel if you can actually get a shovel into the ground (we used to use a pick axe to start holes before I got a PHD for the tractors). So after about 40 minutes of trying to pull a short trench with the Sub-Soiler, I got out a narrow short handled spade and started working inside the area where I disturbed the ground. I got out the loose soil, which came out in mostly large chunks, and I was only able to get down to about 6".

So for anyone out there who has heavy clay, how do you dig a NARROW trench? The backhoe bucket is 12" wide and the area I am working in is in between small thorn trees. I'd prefer not to have to dig it out with the hoe, but I fear that may be my only viable option???

I knew there was a reason I didn't want to pull electricity to the playhouse.

 

[getut]

Sorry for stating the obvious.... but go as deep as the subsoiler will go on more passes. Even if you have to only do 3-4 inches each pass. I had to do the same thing with my dog fencing and subsoiler except that I hit areas that I just about couldn't do anything... red clay with big rocks buried in it. I would occasionally have to stop and flip rocks out with the FEL.

Even if you don't hit the trench dead center on the additional passes, the trench will still be narrower than a backhoe bucket. If it isn't then immediately get off the tractor and let your wife drive. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Getut

 

[Soundguy]

Bob.. this will be one time when one of my antique jobs might have helped.. re: draft controll on the hyds is very much condusive to ground engaging implements.

That said.. I trenched for a short run of power to my barn by starting out with my box blade, and i pulled all the teeth but 1 near the center.. , and dropped it as low is it would go..and pulled a trench with that. Even then, I pulled the trench in 3 passes.. a shallow scratch thru vegitation and a couple inches of soil.. then another 4" and then another 4".

I think a middlebuster, or subsoiler.. could take it from there.

Too bad you don't have a single bottom plow.. that would be ideal to turn a slice of dirt over.

Hit it with a tooth in your box and really loosen it up. The sub soiler is much more agressive than a middle buster.. so use your subsoiler on a high pass to clean out the top of the trench.. then hit it again lower.. should work decently.

I also have some soil that you have to pickaxe to get thru the first 8".. etc.. course I got a decent amount o' sand in spots as well..

good luck

Soundguy

 

[ManofMystery]

Bob,

I've lived with clay soil, so I feel your pain. One technique I have used for projects without an urgent deadline: Rip a shallow trench, then lay in a length of soaker hose. Let it soak a day or two, rip a little deeper, and repeat until you've reached your finished depth.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

All, I did try several shallow passes, I was getting stuck at about 4" deep!!! In fact I probably tried about 20 passes! even with a shovel assist, I only got down to about 6" total depth.

I may run a soaker hose down there tonight, wetting the area is something I thought about, it might be my last option before taking hooking up the backhoe and making a real trench in the yard. . . or is should I say real mess of the yard.

I've used the subsoiler on other parts of the property will much better results, but this attempt was down in our valley area where the clay is a different composition than up on the ridges. I know my old Olivers would tear the trench up in about 30 seconds -- unfortunately I'm in-between ownership and the lovely Mrs_Bob wants me to finish some other projects before I restore another antique /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif But the real problem is even if I had one of the big old heavy machines, it would have a hard time fitting the tractor between the trees, playhouse, grape arbor, etc which is where I really NEED to run this electric line.

 

[DocHeb]

Try making the top link longer so the blade of the subsoiler is not driving so deep into the soil. With clay, even the small surface of the blade will be able to generate significant resistance. If the blade's angle is too steep, the subsoiler will try to dig deeper and deeper. As it tries to go deeper, the downward force on the three point and rear tires will increase towards infinity (or at least enough to stop the tractor). That's also why you won't spin the wheels if it is diving too deep - there is too much downforce and traction to the ground. The tractor just stops/stalls.

I stalled my TC40D several times with the subsoiler in my thick blue clay, but haven't had problems since making that adjustment.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

After I was done, er, I mean after I gave up, I wondered how much difference that would make. Because of lift issues, the toplink was set fairly short so I wouldn't drag the tip over bumps in the yard, on the hill, etc. I never bothered to try setting it back and to be honest, I don't know how long or short it was set the other couple times I used it when I was able to dig, but since it was in somewhat different soil conditions I really didn't give it much thought.

Maybe some combination of soaking the trench and changing the angel of cut will work for me. I will definately try it this weekend.

 

[timb]

Bob are you spinning the tires - or putting the hydro's into relief? Is it possible that in this confined area you're ending up having to go a little too slow and not getting any good out of a little momentum to get through the harder spots?

 

[Bob_Skurka]

NO tire spinning on either tractor. And no room to build up speed and drop the subsoiler on the run (that would not be really safe anyway, and in low range there isn't much speed to gather up either). The more I think about it the more I think the tractors are trying to dig themselves into the ground because there is no tire spin at all, so Doc's thought about downpressure really is making a lot of sense to me right now.

 

[MarshallTractor]

You guys may think this is off the wall, but there's an organic liquid "aerating" product called Nitron A/35 that is supposed to make the soil more friable. It's not very easy to find locally (if not impossible), but you can order it from gardeniq.com. I've got some coming in today based on recommendations from folks over on gardenweb.com. I hope to make some improvements to my heavy clay soil this fall. We'll see.

Anyway, what made me think of this product was a situation someone described where he used Nitron in partially dug holes (6") for new tree planting. He'd spray the hole with Nitron out of a hose end sprayer. Then fill the hole with a few inches of water. The next day the water would be gone and he could finish the hole down to 18 inches or so with little problem.

Ok. Like I said, off the wall /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif