Scarifying Ice

[kcoburn]

Our home, shop, tractor shed and wood storage shed are located in the midst of dense timber roughly a mile from the nearest county road.I have a 3/4 mile crushed gravel lane that winds through dense mature timber up and down over the ridges running down to a river's edge. A few years ago I bought a cab GL5240 with a loader and a 6' Kubota front snow blower to clear it. By mid winter there's a 2" base of packed snow left after I've cleared the snows. It's shaded enough that it doesn't melt off until well into spring. What little melting that occurs only serves to turn the packed snow base into glare ice. We've had a couple of serious close calls. A year ago I came perilously close to sliding my pickup over a bank onto the top of our septic tank. In winter 2000/2001 we were trapped back here for 8 days until we got enough breakup to let me get out to civilization. Couldn't even get out with a 4wd Honda ATV. But this spring my wife fell and broke her shoulder. It's time for me to find a solution.
Anyone have any thoughts on what implement would help me at least scarify the base? Years ago I tried storing sand and spreading it with an atv pulled spreader. But I couldn't keep the sand from freezing up so I gave up on that. It wasn't quite so bad when I used an L3600 with a loader and rear blade. But I hate pushing all that costly gravel off the lane into the timber. And once we get a foot or so of snow, I'd run out of room to get it off the lane. The snow just rolls off the windrows along the edges and back into the lane. The front blower was the "solution" to those problems but creates this ice base issue. I have a box blade but I doubt I could even scratch the surface with the teeth. Also have a B7610 and have considered getting a tooth bar for it's loader and back-dragging the critical locations with it. My sense, though, is that would be awfully tough on the outfit. I have chains on all 4 wheels, but they're not a very aggressive design. Maybe I should be using V bar chains?
Any ideas short of selling this place and moving to a warmer climate?

 

[NoTrespassing]

We have the same problem but a lot less thankfully. I use sand and gravel on the steepest most dangerous areas and also keep several hundred pounds of expensive calcium chloride on hand in case of a real ice storm. The right chains and all wheel drive would probably get you out most of the time but what a p.i.t.a. I still use a blade and hear you on the gravel waste. I just bought 2 tandems and had them dumped at the top of a hill at a cost of $300 per load. Around here we also have "red dog" shale that is cheaper and gives pretty good traction on top of ice. What about cinders?

I don't think trying to scarify my hills in January would work.

Kevin

 

[DFB]

Sanding is what every place does. I live at 1800 ft on steep winding hill. They lay so much heavy BLACK road sand I think the roadbed gets an full inch higher ever year!

My bud swears by the front wheel chains on his 550 4wd plow truck. He has some jobs where his only option is to plow uphill on gravel to open drives for seasonal homeowners.

 

[Rustyiron]

Does your town use "salt sand" on the roads? Find out where they get it. This is what is used around here. Sand with a little salt mixed in to keep IT from freezing.
It works fine out of a pile left outside, better with just a cheap tarp on it. If you can't find a suplier, you could mix it up yourself. Get a 20 ton load of sand, maybe 2 ton of salt and make a new pile that is mixed. I'm not sure on the ratio but when our town stocks the "salt sand building" for the winter, they would dump about a half of a backhoe bucker on to the top of the (loaded) truck hauling the sand, then dump it all into the building. I have a long lane through the woods also with a decent hill that really does not get any sun, and a good friend that is a plowing contractor. He swings by and it is amazing what just a little bit of this mixture does. So little that unless you really looked for it, you wouldn't know that he's been by! I think Hurd makes 3 pt. broadcast spreader that will handle sand, the tough patr would be loading it with a shovel.

 

[Rustyiron]

These "ice chaines" are more like ice magnets, expensive but you'd almost think that you were on dry pavement with them. These are "trygg" brand. They will last years & years for your use.

Tractor, Grader & Loader Studded Chains

 

[sandyc]

Our town has a small "shed" that is filled with salt/sand (winter sand) and is free for the taking by residents. I fill up 20 or so Kitty litter plastic pails that weigh 50-60 pounds each over the summer so I am ready to hand spread over the icy spots on my drive as needed for ice control. I looked into a spreader for my 3350 but the sand/salt is very wet and heavy so it would not flow through the implement hence I just put it out by hand. The mixture provides immediate traction and helps to break up the ice as long as it stays above 10 degrees or so. Any colder and you have to use calcium chloride.

 

[dave1949]

Yak Trax for the shoes/boots will add a lot of safety when walking on icy stuff. They work.

Studded chains and salt mixed with the sand like RustyIron said should really help. The salt also improves how the sand works on the driveway besides keeping the pile from freezing. The 5240 is heavy enough to push the chain studs into the ice. Sometimes I just drive up and down the driveway several times letting the chains rough up the surface.

I store my sand in flood sandbags indoors but wish I had a dedicated shed for that.

 

[Egon]

[video]http://whiteswearparts.com/grader-components/[/video]

Consider an ice blade?

 

[Baby Grand]

Ice frozen to the ground is one of the toughest things I've ever tried to remove.
It just won't separate from itself in any meaningful way.
For the situation that you describe, I think the suggestions to use salt-sand sounds like a winner.
Maybe some rock dust would work, assuming you can keep it spreadable and not clumped.
I wonder if some sort of a disc type cutter would work - a lot of weight bearing on a few rolling knife edges?
Good luck with this - I understand your frustration - you can't afford to have your loved ones getting injured.

 

[Garandman]

If you have a lot of freeze thaw cycles in the spring, scarifying isn't going to work because water will fill the low spots and refreeze.

Like the other New Englanders above we use sand with enough salt mixed in to keep it from freezing. Very common around here to see a barrel on side with a shovel sticking out at the base of every hill. Our neighbor has a spreader so every time he does his parking lot he does our driveway and charges $20-25.

Made it through the winter by grooving my R4's but I'm getting chains (and the necessary spacers) next winter for sure.

 

[Greenfield Dave]

This might sound crazy, but it works amazingly well. If you have a wood burning appliance, use the ashes over ice, spread like salt. They don't have to be hot. The little edges of the ash dig into the ice giving amazing traction. Of course your drive is a little long for you to cover it, but you could make a path. I know, there's alot of raised eyebrows right now, but just try it this winter, you will be shocked. Now, Mama isn't going to like them being tracked into the house, so use caution there!

 

[TCJatko]

Invest in a beater four-wheel-drive plow truck with a sander on the back and chains on the tires. All it needs to do is go back and forth on the driveway.

 

[kcoburn]

Thanks to all of you for your responses. Lots of good ideas. Spreading sand/salt or woodburner ashes may be enough for me to handle 3 or 4 "critical" areas. We have been using the cleats on our shoes as we go between buildings when it gets really treacherous. But we were headed to town and the wife was sure she could get to the barn where the pickup resides without them. Wrong!
The serrated grader blades look they may be helpful on one of my rear blades. They may scratch up the ice surface enough to make it passable.

 

[PILOON]

I find fine crushed stone or better bags of crushed slag sold at the local lumber yard best.
Dry sand on glare ice won't grip and it slides also the slightest thaw washes it away or it gets iced over easily.
Crushed stone protrudes ice and won't wash away.

I spread fine crushed stone or crushed slag with a walk behind seed broadcaster * applying like salt and pepper as it really takes very little for traction.
My drive is over 1000ft and hilly.
And yes, wood ash is also good traction but messy.

* My seed broadcaster is round cone shaped and has real tires (not plastic) and I also 'locked' the differential for better traction as that is what drives the spinner. Naturally the aggregate must be dry to work well.
One pass up and back is all I need to get good traction.

 

[Gator6x4]

Sand would probably be the best and cheapest solution. Have you considered covering the sand with a cheap blue or brown tarp. State highway personnel keep their sand in shelters and out of the weather because they have to respond at a moments notice.

 

[don white]

I have the exact same problem. My drive is only 1100 feet long but we are on a north slope in eastern Pa woods. I have had as much as 4" of ice on my hill. No, you can't drive on it and yes in the spring it just keeps melting and refreezing. Getting slicker everyday. Salt does not really work on ice that thick. I used to keep the blower set high and allow the snow pack to build up because it is so much easier to blow the snow with the pack of snow base. No stones to worry about. Plus it was good sledding when the kids were young. The down side of ice is just not worth it. I don't blow much anymore because I have a plow for my B26 but the problem is the same. It may sound like a pain but I now have a two step process to clear the drive. I plow with the B26 if the snow is more than a couple of inches. Yes I have a 3" pipe on the blade. This is very important for keeping your stones on the drive. Then I use a Simplicity garden tractor with a 4' stone rake on the back. On the inside of the stone rake I mounted thick rubber. I angle the rake and run up and down the drive. In just a couple of minutes I can kick all the remaining snow off to the side. Sometimes I just do the hill. It works great and even if the ground is not frozen very few stones get moved. When I am done you can see the stone through the snow. If I get any packed areas from the tractor I salt them. If we only have a small storm I will run up and down the drive with the stone rake to prevent any snow pack. My neighbors must think I am an obsessive nut because I will clear 1/2 inch. I just can't let it build up on the hill. Thing is it really does go quickly. I run full speed and am done in 15 minutes. If it wasn't for the hill I wouldn't care about the ice.

One other trick with the stones is to not push the snow all the way off the edge of the drive. Just to the edge.Then when the snow melts the stones are still on the drive. I only care about that in areas of the drive where there is lawn. This doesn't work however when we get a lot of snow that stays around all winter. Sooner or later you have to move the piles back so you can get ready for the next snow.

I like plowing snow but by spring I am done with it. Here in eastern Pa we don't really get many bad winters. Last year was bad. The year I bought my snow plow we got no snow. Oh one other thing when I was young, poor and had no equipment we just parked at the end of the drive. Sometimes I wonder if that wasn't easier. Gonna ask the wife about that. Well there is only one way to find out. Hold my beer while I go ask.

Hope this helps.

 

[dbutler]

I have similar problem from time to time with my driveway. I found using my 6' box scraper with only two scafiers lowered works well. Using it with all the scafiers down disperses the weight to much so they dont dig in. With two down, they dig through the ice and depending on conditions, into the gravel slightly. The gravel spreads onto the ice, and even the torn up ice helps a bit with traction.

I also use a style of chain like Rustyiron posted. Without them, I couldnt do anything in the snow (L45 with R4's)

If you decide to use salt on a dirt driveway, use it lightly or you can end up with a soft muddy mess at times.

 

[don white]

Interesting you only use the chains on the front tires. Does that work well?

Little jab. You are due for and oil change.

This went to the wrong place I thought I was replying to rustyiron.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

These "ice chaines" are more like ice magnets, expensive but you'd almost think that you were on dry pavement with them. These are "trygg" brand. They will last years & years for your use.

Tractor, Grader & Loader Studded Chains

Do you just run the chains on the front? I know a lot of people are nervous about even putting chains on the fronts.

 

[Rustyiron]

Interesting you only use the chains on the front tires. Does that work well?

Little jab. You are due for and oil change.

This went to the wrong place I thought I was replying to rustyiron.

:laughing: That's an old pic. for the oil change date. Yes I only have them on the front. They came from c/l for $300, new chains for the rear (18.4x30) are just under $1500!!
Luke, I just try to use good sence operating (with my fingers crossed) and it's only during snow plowing duty. Mainly for steering control and one hill I have. I figure once you get that 5 tons rolling, the actual snow plowing load is not that great, ya just gotta maintain your momentum.