Sand hill road help.

[txdon]

I need to make a temporary road this fall up a sugar sand hill. The sugar sand is so loose I can get stuck going up it in my truck (2wd). The road will need to be about 75 yards long up the hill. After the cement trucks leave and the house is complete the road will be taken up and wildflowers will be planted. The main road to the house will be around back to cut out all the dusty sand from the prevailing southerly winds.


Is there some sort of blocks, or something to roll out, or is about 10 loads of gravel the best solution? Budget for the road is about $1500 and the product should be able to be recycled for use on my other roads or drives. Thanks for any ideas you may have.

 

[Wiens]

txdon,

Have you looked at using concrete washout? We had problems with our sandy soil drive and had a 2-4" layer of washout placed on it. No problems now. When you don't need your road you could use your FEL to remove it or just leave it in place as a "backdoor getaway"

Kevin in Kansas

 

[bczoom]

TXDon,

Whatever you choose for the top material, I would consider putting road fabric down first. Around here (more clay), if you don't put it down, the rock goes down and the clay comes up.

Brian

 

[EddieWalker]

Hi Don,

Sounds like your getting closer start construction!!!! Very exiting, Steph and I are looking forward to seeing the pics.

That sand is just about impossible to stabilize if your going over it all the time. Rock will work it's way down unless you put an underlayment down first. If you go that route, you might be able to scrape up most of the rock when you're done and re-use it on your other roads. I've never used it myself, but in theory it sounds good.

My first thought was to use cyclone fencing laid flat. Field fence might even be better. In the Marine Corps I saw them use something like that on the beaches when traction was just about impossible. They had metal panals that were laid out and created a road for jeeps and trucks. Pretty heavy stuff, and probably very expensive, but I've always thought fencing material would do the same thing on a smaller scale.

Again, I have never tried this personally, just throughing an idea out there.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[Farwell]

Give the cement folks a call. I am sure that they run into this situation all the time. I also like the ideas already posted.
Farwell

 

[Larstan]

The stuff Eddie is talking about is called 'PSP' or pierced steele planking. We used it in the army also, great stuff but real heavy. But I think Eddies right, you are going to need something that will ride on the surface. Be interested to see what you decide. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[OkeeDon]

Sugar sand is a real bear. I had the same thoughts as Eddie -- almost any aggregate you put down will disappear unless your put down a geotextile cloth first. Even if you were able to have it paved, it would crack very quickly under the weight of cement trucks, because the sugar sand is so unstable beneath it.

How steep is the hill, for how long a period do you need the road, and how much rain would you expect to get during the period? I don't really need the answers to those questions, but if you can answer them for yourself, it might help you judge my suggestion. Back when I was working for a development company which was building many roads through sugar sand, they would make temporary roads by cutting pine branches and palm fronds and creating a thick layer. Maybe there's some vegetation on your property that would work as well?

It would be bumpy at first but a couple of passes by big trucks and it starts to break down and smooth out. Of course, it's very temporary -- probably last for a month in Florida, maybe a little longer in Texas, and then you'd have to do it again -- or just keep adding to it. The best part is, as it breaks down and works into the sugar sand, it's improving the "soil" and doesn't have to be removed. Material cost is free; labor might be too high.

As I'm sitting here thinking this through, and thinking about the way the stuff might wash out if the hill is too steep and there is a heavy rain, it occurred to me that Edddie's idea of the wire fence might work very well in combination with the brush! Lay dow a thick layer of brush, then put down two lanes of wire fence to hold the brush in place and spread the load over it. Tractor Supply sells the red top wire fence for about $115 for a 330' foot roll; you'd need two rolls and maybe some stakes.

 

[Farwell]

Don,
I like your idea of using what is available on the property to help build a useable surface. I have done something similar in a low wet area of my property that I have to drive my tractor through on occasion. I cut small trees and brush and lay them across the area and add dirt with my FEL. I keep doing the tree and dirt thing until the drive path is stabilized and long enough to get me past the wet area. Have not thought about adding the fence material and will try that myself. I also find that when I need to dig in my sugar sand adding moisture helps, so maybe soaking the sandy area until the moisture penetrates into the brush, fence, dirt and deeply into the sand will help in this situation as well.
Farwell

 

[txdon]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will check with the cement people to see what has been done. They did come out to a more stable site about 7 years ago for my tractor shed and they almost got stuck. They told me up front if they get stuck I pay for the tow out. The wetter the sand gets the firmer it is, kind of like driving on the beach near the water compared to driving on the sand dunes. I like the idea of using underbrush and then let it rot to compost. I have many cedars that could be used for this. Of course this would be more work upfront. The fence idea may be the one that works but at the least I need some sort of fabric so the rocks don't disappear. The only problem with that is taking up the gravel with the front end loader and the fabric or fencing being a pain to deal with - more labor later. I have a couple of months to toss the ideas in my head and keep my eye open for any new products.

OkeeDon, attached is a picture, the yellow dots are where the road will run, the last 25 yards is the steepest. The first slab will be the garage/storage/temp workshop behind the house and the road will go over the house site. I will then remove the top part of the road and continue digging the basement. This is going to be a fun retirement project! One day at a time. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

edit: Does anyone have any experience with Grasspave2 or gravelpave2 ? Cost?

 

[Nat]

My ex BIL biult a new house down an old farm road, and didn't want to spend a lot of money for gravel till most of the construction was done so as not to put mud on top of new gravel so he put some old chain link fencing it the muddier spots, You didn't sink on it but traction was a problem with our red clay. After a few weeks of trucks running over it the ends curled up and got wedged in the wheelwells of several different trucks, and 1 guy told my ex BIL that if he didn't remove it from his truck he would sue for damages. He finally took it up with a tractor and subsoiler, and had to cut it off the subsoiler with a OA torch.
I'd check on some concrete wash out if you don't want to cover the sand with limbs, which will work, that's how we used to get in and out of the woods with pulpwood trucks. HTH, later, Nat