Round pen drainage

[Schneeky]

Hey guys. We're puttin a round pen in the pasture for workin/training the horses. Got a coupla questions.
I've prepped the site pretty much. Scraped off a 64' circular base from 8"-12" deep. We got a good rain and it's got plenty of grade but the sticky red clay at the bottom holds the water. We'd like to keep the passage between the perimeter fence and the round pen usable for vehicles. Is it as simple as putting in a small pipe? Would that clog up over time? Other suggestions?
..Also, what recommendations would you have for footing? Seems there's a whole lotta differing opinions on that. We're in central NC if that's relevant. Are geo textiles of any use in that application. We've heard it both ways.
..Thanks much for any helpful advice!!

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Same loads of sand

 

[riptides]

I'd stick some drain tile and gravel where you have the water issue. Take it outside the perimeter fence.

Are you planning on fencing off the round pen? Or are you leaving it in the pasture area?

We used about 10 truckloads of stone dust.

 

[Egon]

A shallow drainage trench with the whole circle sloped to it.

 

[Dragonpharm]

I will be putting in a round pen myself very soon. For several years we have shared a round pen with the neighbors. Have learned a few things from that experience. Most important is that if you don't address drainage no amount of sand can help. Neighbor just cleared off an area and filled it with sand. The area they had the pen in held water a bit prior to the pen. Got much worse afterwards. Fortunately we have a site with better natural drainage. I'm still going to put in some perforated drainage pipe with a fabric sleeve on it around the perimeter to help it dry faster.

Good luck with your project.

 

[Schneeky]

We've got the panels and a coupla gates ready for the round pen. Not gonna mess with those till we get the footing done, tho'. We set it up temporarily just to see if we liked the size and layout. Worked nicely. Are there any specifics to the "stone dust" or is that the "official" name for it a quarry would recognize? We have Vulcan in our AO.
I noticed the RR ties on the outside. She had talked about some planking fastened to the outer bottoms of the panels to contain the sand. Is one better than the other?

Egon- It pretty much had a natural slope to it already. The strange thing being that it went from orange "sandy" clay up near the pine tree to red sticky clay near the fence.

 

[Schneeky]

Most important is that if you don't address drainage no amount of sand can help.

That's what I'm fixin to work on before any footing goes in. I've prolly got enough fall to get a good bit of the water out. But will most likely end up with a little water in the bottom. Coupla inches or so. The wall of the pen at that location is ~8".
..Ya reckon it's no biggie if the water level is well below the top of all the aggregate?

As a side. I had no idea how much dirt would come out of this hole. Needless to say I'm all set for fill and topsoil for a good bit.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Drag the low side out so it won't hold water like a mud hole. I work with big names in rodeo. Put some kind of Sandy loose something on top of the clay.

 

[ponytug]

We had something similar and it turned to 18" of mushy clay every wet season.

Definitely make sure that the land around the arena isn't draining into it. BTDT. It makes your issues worse. My advice is try to end up six inches to a foot above grade.

I think that non-equestrians underestimate how hard horse are on round pens. I couldn't put in six inches of coarse gravel, but if you can, I would recommend at least six inches, well compacted, and then put down geotextile and then sand or pea gravel, 4-6" deep, but don't use building sand. You want washed sand. Contrary to lore, geotextiles will fill with silt and sediment and clog, it is just a question of how long. Clay and silt are their worst enemies.

I put in French drains in pea gravel because I had 15'+ of clay and I wanted a solid footing. Then geotextile and six inches of pea gravel. It has been thirteen years and it has worked well, though I can see the difference in how fast water moves through the geotextile between the first year and this year.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Schneeky]

Thanks much for the replies, fellas. We're takin it all in. Don't wanna rush this thing and jack it up.
Here's a coupla more pics of the area from the county GIS site. I tried a quick area measurement tool to mark the location of the round pen. The "top" of the pen is near the lone pine. It appears that's a high point and we may have somethin like 2' of fall from the top to bottom.

If I cut a drainage down at the "bottom" would that let whatever aggregate I used out as well?
Is there a trick to it? Thanks..

 

[ljjhouser]

Use a "FRENCH CURTAIN" Dig a trench from the wet area under the fence to the low area. Fill the trench with coarse rock or use drainage tile, cover it with a barrier (some use 30# roofing felt) to keep the rock clean. It will drain to the low area. Cover top with dirt and seed. Research - French curtain.

It is good that you now know where the water needs to be drained. And probably good that it is close to the fence area downhill.

 

[Egon]

We've got the panels and a coupla gates ready for the round pen. Not gonna mess with those till we get the footing done, tho'. We set it up temporarily just to see if we liked the size and layout. Worked nicely. Are there any specifics to the "stone dust" or is that the "official" name for it a quarry would recognize? We have Vulcan in our AO.
I noticed the RR ties on the outside. She had talked about some planking fastened to the outer bottoms of the panels to contain the sand. Is one better than the other?

Egon- It pretty much had a natural slope to it already. The strange thing being that it went from orange "sandy" clay up near the pine tree to red sticky clay near the fence.

Does the whole circle have a positive drainage gradient to the outside?

 

[Schneeky]

Not sure. In the pic you can see that all the water collects at the "bottom" of the circle.
Does that qualify? I'm kinda thinkin if I can find a way to let water out and keep sand or whatever ends up being used for footing in I'll be good.
Had a busy day with things to do and just now gettin to checkin into some of the suggestions..
Thanks much for y'all's input!

 

[r porter]

with very much fall your sand will always wash out.

also dont forget that there will always be a worn area from working your stock that will hamper drainage if you dont have a french drain and tile.

 

[dirttoys]

Does the whole circle have a positive drainage gradient to the outside?

this is the key to success. Get the center 18" above grade, and let the grade fall all directions to at least a mowers width outside the fence. If you do this it will be hard to go wrong, if you don't it will be hard to get it right.

I know in spot fabric does great at keeping media from mixing with soil, but, I always worry about going through it with a blade or bucket.

Best,

ed

 

[r porter]

i almost have a crown on my pen with just a few degrees down on one side and the sand will flow down hill.

18 inches will not make it easy to work your animal. it may drain but you will cuss it. you want the horse to work naturally and a slope will interfere with commands. also horses hate something above them- it is a predator thing. you want to be on their level to communicate properly.

just so you know. every few years i take the pen down and use a blade to bring the sand back. also i use my tiller to till the pen once a year.

 

[Schneeky]

Thanks for the replies fellas.. Still takin it all in and gettin input from local horse folk as well.
I'm headed to the woods for a few days while I wait for it to dry out from that rain. I cut a slot at the bottom of the circle to let the water out. It wasn't going down much at all on it's own.
It drained down to just a lil wet mud with the slot and it's s'posed to be dry for a while now.

 

[Egon]

Thanks for the replies fellas.. Still takin it all in and gettin input from local horse folk as well.
I'm headed to the woods for a few days while I wait for it to dry out from that rain. I cut a slot at the bottom of the circle to let the water out. It wasn't going down much at all on it's own.
It drained down to just a lil wet mud with the slot and it's s'posed to be dry for a while now.

That slot might just do it for you.

 

[ponytug]

This isn't construction advice, but here are some free advice tips on design for equine safety and behavior. For equine soundness, you want the round pen flat, level, and with enough sand, or rounded pea gravel but not too much. Pea gravel drains much, much better, and doesn't compact much to speak of. If you end up with tenderness in the equine soles, then there are farrier / stall footing issues. Having all of your loafing areas in pea gravel will help toughen up he soles. If the round pen footing gets deep, you run the risk of torquing/tweaking tendons, especially with young or high strung stock, which are usually the ones you have in the round one anyway. I would also point out that a larger diameter pen is better, as it keeps the turning forces on the horses lower. Finally, if you can, make the walls solid all the way up to 6-7'. It will help enormously when training as the horses will be much less distracted by motion outside of the round pen.

Definitely put a solid 18-24" of 2x at ground level as a "kick board" to keep your sand and gravel in the pen.

Yes, we do all of our own hoof care and have done so for close to twenty years, while putting on tens of thousands miles on the trails with our equine companions. Keeping horses sound is a big deal for us.

All the best,

Peter