Rotary plow (Berta) for digging a ditch for water lines?

[freedomlives]

In my post in the introduction forum, I mentioned the equipment I have now (Czech made Vari two wheel tractor system, 6.5HP Honda gas engine).

I thought I would be able to use the moldboard plow on it to dig an 8" ditch to put water line in, maybe somehow making the ditch two passes wide then plowing in the bottom of it to get 16" deep. Well, I was naive about moldboard plows, which is to say that with what I have, cutting through grassy field in heavy clay soil, I can go about 4" deep.

I've read on here that the Berta rotary plow will go 12" deep and 10" wide. I wonder what sort of speed it would go in "ditch digging" configuration? And is there any way it could dig deeper on a second pass? 18" here is (if I remember right) the official "won't freeze in hard winter depth", but when I was replacing the pipe from the water main to our house, the guys from the water company said that about a foot deep should pretty much never freeze.

These pipes will be for irrigation of gardens and getting water to livestock up the hill behind our house. The distance will be about 400 meters (~450 yards).

How is the PTO connection on this implement? Could it possibly work in forward PTO mode? Is there any rating for what speed it should be turning at? I found one used on an italian classifieds site for $700, so I would be willing to even try adapting it to my Vari DSK-316 transmission and see if the Honda GSV190 motor would have enough power to make it work in our soil. And if it didn't, eventually also import one of the italian walk behind tractors.

The DSK-316 transmission is small though, 25kg only. Combined with the motor unit, it would itself be 106 pounds. I just have the version that goes forward.

Of course, I also want to be using it to prepare raised beds from what is now grassland. I was otherwise thinking of getting a chinese chain trencher, but that would put me out at least $1500 and they look extremely slow. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be anyone on this side of Slovakia renting trenchers.

A kind of secondary question though-- I saw that Gravely walk behind tractors had a chain trencher attachment. Is there not such an attachment made for the Italian walk behinds?

 

[TimberXX]

Bcs used to have a rotary trencher used for irrigation and dog fence. I have not seen it in a while.

 

[freedomlives]

I found the specs on those, after seeing referenced on here to a "mini-trencher". But they dig about 6 inches, which is a bit too shallow. The pipe I'll be laying is about 1.5" outside diameter black polypipe.

 

[Dsl power]

The berta will dig a 10-12in trench in one pass and you could do 18in if you made three passes laid your pipe and then back filled the trench but you would have a good pile of dirt. I'll be using mine for that in a couple weeks. Also it will dig at about 1mph and I can run my honda gx390 at about 2000rpm or less and it still just chugs through the soil. Just does it slower. Here is a couple pics of my machine. Hope it gives you an idea. I can't help you on adapting it to your machine though.

 

[farmerboybill]

I don't think you have much chance of turning a rotary plow with a 4 hp engine. Your better bet is to get a tractor with that plow. I imagine that used walk-behinds are easily had in Italy, and probably not much more expensive to ship to Slovakia than just the plow.

Double digging with the rotary plow isn't going to be very effective. You'll need to dig the first trench wide enough to get the whole tractor down into it. You may be able to half your work by digging one pass with the plow, then hand digging the remaining 10 inches (frost depth in my area is 36-48 inches).

A thought - do you plan on using the water line in the winter? If not, you could easily drain it in the fall and leave it empty until spring. That way, you could dig it just deep enough to get it underground, or even leave it on the top of the ground. I have a neighbor who moves water with black plastic line laying on top of the ground to water an 80 cow dairy herd all summer long. In the fall, he simply opens all the valves and leaves it that way 'til spring.

 

[oldmech]

Hi! The best is a trencher. I just look a YouTube video. A man make one inexpensive trencher for his Two wheels tractor as Your.
He makes a big steel wheel 30 in. dia or more this one with a lot of cup or cutting pad . this wheel on one side replace the tractor wheel on other side a small steel wheel may be 10 in. dia I think the small wheel is free. The tractor is moving (in ground) by hand I think.
You must probably past 2 or 3 times for reach 12 in.
HOME MADE TRENCHER at WORK . Good luck! Oldmech

 

[freedomlives]

Also it will dig at about 1mph and I can run my honda gx390 at about 2000rpm or less and it still just chugs through the soil. Just does it slower.

I don't think you have much chance of turning a rotary plow with a 4 hp engine. Your better bet is to get a tractor with that plow. I imagine that used walk-behinds are easily had in Italy, and probably not much more expensive to ship to Slovakia than just the plow.

...

A thought - do you plan on using the water line in the winter? If not, you could easily drain it in the fall and leave it empty until spring.

It is 5.1 or 6.5HP. The former being the measurement Honda now gives, that is supposed to be close to realworld, with mufflers and such installed. The latter was the power it was marketed with until recently. So I wonder also, when the specs for engines for the rotary plow call for 8-14 HP, whether that is real horsepower or marketing horsepower.

Though, per DSL power, a gx390 @ 2000 rpm still outputs 7 HP and 18ft-lbs of torque, whethers my GSV190 maxes out at 8ft-lbs torque and 5.1 HP.

I'd still be tempted to try, just the big question is: can it be operated with the rotary plow in the front, pushing forward into the soil instead of dragging behind the tractor? Because that is the only way the gearbox with PTO that I have can drive (as I didn't buy the 3x more expensive gearbox with reverse since, at the time, I just planned to mow hay...) Because if it can't possibly be pushed, then there's no hope at all of getting it to work with my current equipment, and I'd pretty much have to look for a used tractor in Italy. (There are two other tractors similar to what I have, but with the PTO integrated into the large gearbox. One is Hungarian, and isn't marketed here in Slovakia, and I was at a loss to find out more about them last year-- Hungarian is a very unique language, which is to say I don't understand it at all, neither Latin, German or Slavic roots to Hungarian words. The Slovak one with the PTO configuration and differential is hard to find used and is pushing in price new close to italian tractors, but still with the same glorified GSV190 lawnmower enginer my czech tractor has, and the same assortment of accesories.)

The cattle probably won't be up there in the dead of winter. But it has been a problem for me the fall frosts. (I have black poly pipe on the surface of the ground for 4 years now) Even though daytime temps will be above freezing, even if it is sunny, it takes just one tiny spot in the line that is shaded by grass or leaves and stays frozen and no water.

I'm also going to be running a pressurized sewage line to a constructed wetland, so that needs to not freeze in winter. But also the actual depth that freezes will be affected by the surface conditions, so for the 5 years I've been here, there's always been some snow when it's sunk down to -15ｰC, likewise grass will be growing over the trench line, so this will help compared to bare ground. My experience with the black poly pipe is that water freezing in them doesn't damage them, so if the sewage line froze for a day or two, it would be a managable problem.

He makes a big steel wheel 30 in. dia or more this one with a lot of cup or cutting pad.
You must probably past 2 or 3 times for reach 12 in.

well, I'll give this idea some consideration, but its probably too much work to make the wheel for just very occasional use.

 

[freedomlives]

I'm going to make the trip to Italy sometime this summer to get a used two wheel tractor and rotary plow. While in the US last month I visited a farmer in Tennessee who used the rotary plow to make terraced beds: Index
None of the pictures on his website show it really well, but the beds are actually at a 5° slope towards the hillside so that water doesn't flow over the downhill edge of the bed and erode it during rains.

And just today I was looking for a video of the Berta rotary plow to show a friend and found this video:
https://youtu.be/v-n1tIWOlhU
About 5 minutes in it shows the rotary plow being used as a "digger".

Can the double rotary plow be used just as well for digging like is shown in the video?

 

[freedomlives]

I bought, with the help of my wife's cousin who lives near Milan, a Berta double rotary plow. The person selling it lives on the other side of Italy, but luckily he was taking a trip in her direction. So it is waiting for me in Brescia. Likewise, I found a walk behind tractor (Goldoni 140 -- 12HP diesel) near her. usato Goldoni 140 In vendita Bergamo It has the powered trailer and rotor tiller as well.

The big adventure will be in two weeks, driving across Hungary and Slovenia in this terrible heat wave we have with an old VW Transporter without A/C. 750 miles away. I would go this week, but it is going to be almost 100°F most days this coming week, so I'll wait till it has dropped back down to the high 80's.