Rotary or Flail?

[Riddler]

With no prior mowing experience (except "bi-ped" powered mowing), I am trying to figure out whether to pay extra for a flail mower or go with a good quality rotary when I purchase my new tractor (which will be a Kubota Grand L). I have 8-10 acres of native grass to deal with (probably at least a few times a year), as well as some wild blackberry, broom and other light weight shrubs that I might want to clear by grinding up rather than pulling. Half of the terrain has shape of some sort to it. There are also some ditches that would look a lot better if I could manage a rough cut of some sort over some portion of them. There is no grass to finish cut yet, but who knows, I may get inspired and install a lawn area someday.

I know that a rotary will do a great deal of what I need done, so I am trying to figure what additional functionality (if any) I'll get with the flail (so I can "value" it before I make my final decision). I have been told that a flail will do the job in one pass, whereas I might have to wait a few days and make a second pass with a rotary to get the same results. If a flail will give me the required result in noticeaby less time, then that's an advantage that has real value for me.

Second, I have seen flails that can be off-set and angled so that the upper slopes of ditches can be reached. Again, those are functions I could use.

Third, because I will be learning tractor and implement operation for the first time, I would pay more for any implement design that is easier to learn to use effectively.

Any advice that can help me decide between these two designs of cutters would be very much appreciated.

 

[KiotiJohn]

I've never used a flai mower, but I understand they do a great job. However, I've also heard they are more expensive to repair and that they need repairs more often than a rotary mower would. I have no idea of the truth of this, just what I've heard. I have RARELY ever need to cut twice with a rotary cutter, and I'm only using a 4' at this time. I have had to run over small sections again when they don't get completely cut, but it's never been a lot.
A good rotary cutter is going to cost a good bit less than a flail, and if you practice with it, backing and forward, you'll be surprised how much and how well you can cut with it, eliminating, for the most part, a need for offsetting. I would buy a size that is one foot under the maximum recommended for your tractor as you probably won't need the largest one avaiable, and that size will probably cut just beyond the rear tires so you can get up close to things like fences and walls, etc. Keep in mind that the more area you're cutting, the more power it takes. Especially if the growth is thick and not spread out as in many brush cutting operations. Cutting "thick" grass is one of the toughest jobs you're tractor will do. John

 

[Riddler]

John, thanks for your suggestion about rotary cutter sizing.

I forgot to add in my initial post that I have decided to order the tractor with a top 'n tilt set up (I can really use the additional functionality that it provides with a box scaper). This may be a dumb question, but does the top 'n tilt make a rotary cutter more functional at all, especially in some of the circumstances where a flail would otherwise be the only option? For example, the drainage ditches I mentioned in my initial post include two that sandwhich my gravel driveway for a straight length of over 500'. Backing a rotary into the ditch to cut the slope nearest to the driveway is not an option both because of the length of the driveway (cutting 5' or 6' at a time would take forever) and the width of it (not wide enough to work perpendicular to the ditch very easily). Is it my imagination or will the top 'n tilt allow me to use a rotary cutter that is wider than my tractor to mow at least a foot or so of the upper part of the ditch slope? Is there some other way that the top 'n tilt will help a rotary cutter perform a little more like a flail in certain circumstances?

 

[markct]

the term flail mower is used to cover alot of different types of mowers. for example your brushog is a rotary mower, so it your lawnmower you push across the yard, and so it a finish mower that goes on the 3pt, yet you wouldnt cut down small trees with your push mower would you? well its the same with flail mowers, flail is a style of mower just as rotary is, there are different types of flail mowers, there are some designed to give a smooth lawn look, then there are some that have the capability chop up 4 inch diamter trees all day long. flail mower is a very general term thats why ya get people telling you that they are terrible for brush but great for lawns and another guy telling you they are great for brush and terrible for lawns, its cause they each have a different style of flail, the flail mowers that they use to cut up 4 inch dia trees have forged knives that weigh close to 10 lbs a piece in some cases, i have an old one i use as a auto body dolly sometimes. then there are other flail mowers that use teeth that are just L shaped or V shaped pieces of sheetmetal less than an 1/8 thick often, these are the ones designed for lawns and very light brush, and there are different configurations in the light duty ones too, my father bought a flail mower about 20 years ago when he had no idea there were different types of flails, he bought a used mott brand mower for 500 bucks, it worked great on the field, but when he got into some brush it soon started loosing its little blades like crazy, well when he went to get parts he found out why, it was a finish cut flail, the blades ran at a very high speed and just pivioted on a bolt between too tabs on the flail shaft, so they couldnt take too much abuse, well a few years later we got another flail very cheap that is a slightly heavier duty style, it looks almost identical except it has the blades mounted to a little chain link so they can flop over to the side if they strike anything to rough. this is still not the type you can use for brush but it works great for mowing roadside ditches and briars and other small woody plants. also keep in mind that the flail mowers that are heavy enough to cut up heavy brush will do a very poor job on cutting grass, sometimes they just sorta lay the grass down even. so just remember flail mower is a general term, theres many different types. you wouldnt ask your pushmower to cut down thick brush, nor would you expect your brushog to do a nice job on your lawn, so its just the same with flail mowers

 

[KiotiJohn]

Mark, I had read some of this before, but I assumed he was only talking about the brush cutting type actually. I wish I had thought about what you said when I was posting, it would have been more complete.
I've never used one as I said.
As for using the T&T the way you mentioned RIDDLER, I doubt that would really work. Now I don't have T&T yet, but I do know that if I don't have my brush cutter on straight both side to side and up and down, I get a lot of vibration and it doesn't want to cut right. Probably from the PTO not being aligned properly. I would thing this would be a major problem with tilting the mower enought to cut ditch bank tops as you would need to do. I do what you said, I back them in, 4' at a time in my case and I get it done eventually! But I'm only cutting about 150' of ditch bank, not 500'. I would think that you'd do better with a hydraulic lifting sickle bar mower. You know, the kind that has scissor like cutters and hangs off to the side? They can be expensive to repair, but they do a pretty good job with brush and some grasses. I'm not sure how they would do for a lawn, probably not too good. Maybe someone who has one can chime in about them.
Wishing you the best in your search. John

 

[Panache]

I have a JD 25A on a JD5200. A flail will work well for what you want. Watch the rotation direction of one you are considering. I got one that cuts from the front back. This only cuts the material once and spreads it evenly across the just cut grass. The JD25A extends about 12" outside the right tire allowing just close to the water around my pond and on the dam. I use my flail cause it is more forgiving about hitting rocks. It easily cuts shrubs up to the size of my thumb and deleaf anything bigger. It also will cut down to 1/2".

 

[Riddler]

Mark, thanks for comments about the different types of flail mowers. I had a rough idea of the different designs and purposes.

At the moment, I have no finishing mowing to do, so my focus will be on something that works well on grass other than lawn. The brush I may want to cut is light (i.e., half an inch thick at most). If the mower will handle that as well, that would be great.

Jeff, the unit you describe sounds like the type I should look into. Although I don't have a pond edge to get close to (not yet at least), the one foot of offset would help me reach into some areas, like where the ditches meet the roadway. It sounds like the unit you have is meant to be operated with a fixed 12" right wheel offset. Can it also be tilted with adjustments to the implement or when used with top 'n tilt?

I know that there are flail units that can be set to operate either straight behind the hitch or off to either side. These units also appear to have tilt/angle capability whether or not the tractor that pulls them has top 'n tilt. If a less eloborately designed (and hence less expensive) flail mower, however, can deliver similar capabilities when mated with top 'n tilt (which I'll have), I would love to hear about it. I would not want to pay the significantly higher price for the offset/angle adjustable flail when a less expensive model in combination with my top 'n tilt will work almost as well.

 

[Panache]

I am familiar with the 25A. There are others out there, Alamo and Rhino come to mind. Land Pride I think has one also. The offset is minor. it is a 6'6" mower. I get about 6' on each pass. I run the LF wheel along the just cut edge. this way I have only one tiretrack in the uncut grass and I get the most useable cutting width. At times I have to go to as slow as it will go to cut bahia that is 18-24" high. My lift arms have a float feature with how the pins are set so I don't need a TnT setup.

 

[Riddler]

Jeff, for you, it sounds like the extra cost of a flail versus a rotary is worth it. I hope I'm reading you right on that.

 

[Panache]

Yes. I use my brush-hog infrequently, normally just the first pass to cut the larger stuff. After that it is the flail.